View Poll Results: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

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    35 38.04%
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Thread: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

  1. #101
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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Yep, and Obama was wrong.
    So was he also a terrorist?

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Have you conveniently forgotten that Baucus was one of the chief authors of Obamacare? And if he thinks it is a train wreck, then Hell, it's worse than what the Republicans are claiming!
    You realize that Baucus remains a strong supporter of the ACA and his 'train wreck' comment was really referring to Republicans stripping out any money for education and implementation?

    I have a feeling you probably don't care and are doggedly refractory to facts though.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/20...eck_quote.html
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Baucus remains a strong supporter of the ACA
    And why not? It's not like he is running for re-election.

  4. #104
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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Firstly, the minority party spends like just drunken sailors just as bad as the majority party.
    Exactly. That's why I didn't say Rep or Dem. If either party, as the minority is stupid enough to allow the other party to simply spend wildly without any controls, they're idiots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Secondly, the government should start actually fiscally responsible right now which requires reasonable behavior from both the Republicans and the Democrats.
    Definitely. On that we will fully agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Lastly, being in debt for a nation state is not fiscally irresponsible in and of itself, sovereign debt is a major source of market stability as well as a means for a country to invest in itself. That's not to say a country can borrow, borrow, borrow without any regard to its ability to repay but some borrowing is good and desirable, the issue comes when you become like Greece where they borrowed so much money that their required GDP growth would have to have been in the double digits in order for enough government revenue to be generated from taxes for the government to pay its debts. Then of course the recession hit which made it even worse, the US is not anywhere near that point it has every economic means to repay its debts so long as the government is willing to honor them.
    I will disagree with the idea that being in this level of debt is not fiscal irresponsibility. I'm no economist, by any stretch of the imagination, but when I have to go to the credit card company any beg for a spending limit extension every year or so, I'd suggest it's well past time to stop eating out every night and buying stuff I don't need on that credit card

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Even if you want the government to lower its debts, which I do as well, the solution is not to simply stop paying them. You wouldn't advise someone who's in debt that simply stopping to pay his bills is a smart way to get out of debt would you? The US government must honor the debt's its made while reducing its future creation of debts
    You're right the solution isn't to stop paying the debts. The solution is to cut your spending so that you have the available cash to pay the debts and to maintain those services which are appropriate and Constitutionally mandated. When you are on the brink of not being able to cover the payments on your debt is not the time to start spending even more on things that you don't need, like Obamacare.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yup. And all budgets involve negotiation. The Administration wants to avoid that by refusing to have a budget. Too Bad, So Sad. Negotiate.
    Isn't it fun to imagine the Administration controls the entire US government? Isn't is so much simpler to pretend The House doesn't continually churn up chunks of knowingly impassable crap year after year?
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

  6. #106
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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    So was he also a terrorist?
    Given the popular propaganda from the left and using the same criteria they used to make accusations against the Republicans.... yes he was.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  7. #107
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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    The GOP will pay a price for this. Don't take my word for this, just wait and see. This is a stupid thing for them to do. There is no upside for them with this stupidity. They will pay a price for this.
    They would pay an equal price for NOT doing it. Believe it or not there are still some of us who have Principles and who will not vote for those who fail to uphold theirs after having stated them.

  8. #108
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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    You realize that Baucus remains a strong supporter of the ACA
    Naturally. That's why he isn't even trying to run for reelection, and is getting out of the Senate before it can get applied to him.

    and his 'train wreck' comment was really referring to Republicans stripping out any money for education and implementation?
    As I understand it he was referring to implementation all-together. However, think about the implications of claiming that a program is going to fall apart because enough people won't be draining money from it.

  9. #109
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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Here's a rather frightening article about the repercussions of a credit default:

    Wall Street to GOP: Are you nuts? - Ben White - POLITICO.com

    "A brief shutdown would have some negative economic effects and could create political blowback on the GOP. But it would cause far less long-term damage than a default, which would likely send interest rates sky-rocketing, crush the stock market, devastate business and consumer confidence, and probably send the nation’s economy hurtling back into recession if not depression."

    Let's say you and your brother go out for dinner. Your brother's behind the wheel. He wants Mexican, and you want Italian. You can't convince him and he can't convince you along the way. As you near a sharp curve, he keeps his foot on the gas and demands you give in to Mexican or he'll drive you both off the road.

    All bias aside, is this not what House Republicans are doing? They had two years in the last Congress to push their ideas. They failed to pass their agenda through the Senate and signed into law by the President. They lost seats in the election. They've had another 9 months to argue their ideas, with even less to show for it. Now that there is no time for debate, they are demanding their ideas be enacted or they will allow a catastrophic default on the US Government's debt.

    Is it out of bounds to demand this when you have not been able to convince your fellow Congressmen to support your ideas when there was time to debate them? Or is using the threat of disaster a legitimate political tool?
    How is it that the House/Republicans are threatening distaster by not agreeing with the Senate/Democrats, but the Senate/Democrats arent threatening disaster by doing the same thing?

  10. #110
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    Re: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Isn't it fun to imagine the Administration controls the entire US government? Isn't is so much simpler to pretend The House doesn't continually churn up chunks of knowingly impassable crap year after year?
    no one ever said that it does. However, it does control the White House and the Senate. That being said, I note that nothing you posted even addresses much less refutes what I pointed out: that budget negotiations involve actual negotiation, as well as compromise, and so the Administration has been trying to lock in the results of a year when it owned both houses of Congress and the White House in perpetuity by going outside the Budget Process to fund government. Now they are acting shocked to find people demanding compromise and negotiation, and climbing up on donkeys and tilting and windmill monsters, denouncing the very idea of negotiation. How Dare you think we would compromise?!?

    It's childish and its cheap, but there are enough useful idiots in the media and low-information consumers that they will probably get away with it.

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