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Voluntary Tax

Would you Sign up for the Voluntary Tax

  • Total voters
    23
SBu

SBu

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Hypothetical kind of a spin off of the thread on reps and dems empathy by aberrant:

Say the government offered a voluntary tax. One that you could sign up for that would increase your taxes by 15%. The money from that voluntary tax is exclusively used for government funded healthcare, food, and employment programs. This is not a tax applied to everyone, only if you agree to it.

Would you/could you afford to sign up for it?
 
SBu said:
Hypothetical kind of a spin off of the thread on reps and dems empathy by aberrant:

Say the government offered a voluntary tax. One that you could sign up for that would increase your taxes by 15%. The money from that voluntary tax is exclusively used for government funded healthcare, food, and employment programs. This is not a tax applied to everyone, only if you agree to it.

Would you/could you afford to sign up for it?
Click to expand...

Taxes cannot be voluntary because then they are called contributions. We have plenty of charities that did not do the job and they are tax deductible. Is your "tax" tax deductible?
 
iguanaman said:
Taxes cannot be voluntary because then they are called contributions. We have plenty of charities that did not do the job and they are tax deductible. Is your "tax" tax deductible?
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Again, this is completely a hypothetical. This more of a "what would/could you do" kind of thing.
 
This is a nonsensical poll as a person can send more money to the IRS now if he/she wants to. It is rare, but a few people do now and then. They can use it for a "tax credit" if they want to.
 
Thought I would have gotten a lot more liberal/progressive "absolutely"s here. I guess paying for social programs is only a good idea if we make everyone do it? This goes along with my theory that liberals are only empathetic from the legislature, but fall short in actually giving, while conservatives are less empathetic from the legislature, but actually give a lot more.
 
SBu said:
Hypothetical kind of a spin off of the thread on reps and dems empathy by aberrant:

Say the government offered a voluntary tax. One that you could sign up for that would increase your taxes by 15%. The money from that voluntary tax is exclusively used for government funded healthcare, food, and employment programs. This is not a tax applied to everyone, only if you agree to it.

Would you/could you afford to sign up for it?
Click to expand...

kind of like giving to charity?

Liberals show tremendous compassion in pushing for generous government spending to help the neediest people at home and abroad. Yet when it comes to individual contributions to charitable causes, liberals are cheapskates
Click to expand...
.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html?source=science20.com&_r=0
 
SBu said:
Hypothetical kind of a spin off of the thread on reps and dems empathy by aberrant:

Say the government offered a voluntary tax. One that you could sign up for that would increase your taxes by 15%. The money from that voluntary tax is exclusively used for government funded healthcare, food, and employment programs. This is not a tax applied to everyone, only if you agree to it.

Would you/could you afford to sign up for it?
Click to expand...

Can I afford it? Yeah. Would I sign up for it? Not unless I'm getting some kind of benefit out of it.
 
Surtr said:
Can I afford it? Yeah. Would I sign up for it? Not unless I'm getting some kind of benefit out of it.
Click to expand...

You don't. The only benefit you get is to come on to DP and exclaim how much more humanitarian you are compared to others. ...I'll mark you down for "no."
 
SBu said:
You don't. The only benefit you get is to come on to DP and exclaim how much more humanitarian you are compared to others. ...I'll mark you down for "no."
Click to expand...

Already voted no. I give to charities of my choosing without being fleeced by the government for it.
 
SBu said:
Thought I would have gotten a lot more liberal/progressive "absolutely"s here. I guess paying for social programs is only a good idea if we make everyone do it? This goes along with my theory that liberals are only empathetic from the legislature, but fall short in actually giving, while conservatives are less empathetic from the legislature, but actually give a lot more.
Click to expand...

Are you saying you want to renounce your citizenship? That's the only way you can avoid paying like the rest of Americans. Actually the meme that conservatives are more "generous" has been disproven time and time again. Even Romney is a skinflint if you take away the 10% tax his religion charges and that IS a tax as it is not optional.
It seems that more and more citizens are getting the idea that if they don't like some Govt. program they don't need to pay for it. I'm afraid it always has and always will be an all or nothing proposition to be an American Citizen. Either you are one or you are not. So....what are you?
 
SBu said:
That's more or less what I thought. Can you post this on Aberrant's thread? He might appreciate this, and from the NY Times is icing on the cake (although it is an op-ed).

And yeah, kind of like charity. The hypothetical tax is meant to be a sort of "if you care extra, give extra" kind of idea.
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can you give me a link to his thread I make a sport out of making liberals look foolish it is like shooting fish in a barrel
 
iguanaman said:
Are you saying you want to renounce your citizenship? That's the only way you can avoid paying like the rest of Americans. Actually the meme that conservatives are more "generous" has been disproven time and time again. Even Romney is a skinflint if you take away the 10% tax his religion charges and that IS a tax as it is not optional.
It seems that more and more citizens are getting the idea that if they don't like some Govt. program they don't need to pay for it. I'm afraid it always has and always will be an all or nothing proposition to be an American Citizen. Either you are one or you are not. So....what are you?
Click to expand...

It's a personal hypothetical question. Have they added that word to Florida dictionaries? Also, you're dodging the question by attacking a third party. If you don't want to or can't pay the extra 15% hypothetical (existing only as an idea or concept) tax, that's fine. Know one's judging you (judging eyes).
 
iguanaman said:
Are you saying you want to renounce your citizenship? That's the only way you can avoid paying like the rest of Americans. Actually the meme that conservatives are more "generous" has been disproven time and time again. Even Romney is a skinflint if you take away the 10% tax his religion charges and that IS a tax as it is not optional.
It seems that more and more citizens are getting the idea that if they don't like some Govt. program they don't need to pay for it. I'm afraid it always has and always will be an all or nothing proposition to be an American Citizen. Either you are one or you are not. So....what are you?
Click to expand...

According to Google’s figures, if donations to all religious organizations are excluded, liberals give slightly more to charity than conservatives do. But Mr. Brooks says that if measuring by the percentage of income given, conservatives are more generous than liberals even to secular causes.

Conservatives also appear to be more generous than liberals in nonfinancial ways. People in red states are considerably more likely to volunteer for good causes, and conservatives give blood more often. If liberals and moderates gave blood as often as conservatives, Mr. Brooks said, the American blood supply would increase by 45 percent.
Click to expand...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html?source=science20.com&_r=0
 
trfjr said:
can you give me a link to his thread I make a sport out of making liberals look foolish it is like shooting fish in a barrel
Click to expand...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/173796-there-empathy-gap-between-democrats-and-republicans.html

Haha. I think there's plenty of foolishness to go around. I just don't like hypocrisy. I have a few liberal friends that exclaim their social virtue, but don't give a dime to anything. and I have conservative friends that despise taxes for social welfare programs, but would give the shirt off their back for someone in need.
 
iguanaman said:
Are you saying you want to renounce your citizenship? That's the only way you can avoid paying like the rest of Americans. Actually the meme that conservatives are more "generous" has been disproven time and time again. Even Romney is a skinflint if you take away the 10% tax his religion charges and that IS a tax as it is not optional.
It seems that more and more citizens are getting the idea that if they don't like some Govt. program they don't need to pay for it. I'm afraid it always has and always will be an all or nothing proposition to be an American Citizen. Either you are one or you are not. So....what are you?
Click to expand...

Ah, I should have mentioned that people that elect to not pay the extra 15% tax still pay the same taxes with the same allocations. Not that these social programs are exclusively paid for by those that elect to pay the extra 15%. Again, this is a spin off thread of Aberrant's empathy based thread...for context.
 
No. I'd rather help the people around me then have my money filtered through all these bureaucracies before a little of it actually helps the people in need. And many times simply giving isn't solving the problem.

This situation isn't exactly hypothetical though. You can donate to the government. But it's easier to be generous with other people's money.
 
SBu said:
Thought I would have gotten a lot more liberal/progressive "absolutely"s here. I guess paying for social programs is only a good idea if we make everyone do it? This goes along with my theory that liberals are only empathetic from the legislature, but fall short in actually giving, while conservatives are less empathetic from the legislature, but actually give a lot more.
Click to expand...

I think you figured it out. The liberals whine day in and day out about how much higher taxes should be, but they really mean taxes for everyone else. Their idealism goes straight out the window when it's their bank account in jeopardy.

iguanaman said:
Are you saying you want to renounce your citizenship? That's the only way you can avoid paying like the rest of Americans. Actually the meme that conservatives are more "generous" has been disproven time and time again. Even Romney is a skinflint if you take away the 10% tax his religion charges and that IS a tax as it is not optional.
It seems that more and more citizens are getting the idea that if they don't like some Govt. program they don't need to pay for it. I'm afraid it always has and always will be an all or nothing proposition to be an American Citizen. Either you are one or you are not. So....what are you?
Click to expand...

Since when are taxes all or nothing? You claim very regularly that people other than yourself should pay much higher taxes, both in percentage and net, and they do.
 
Surtr said:
Can I afford it? Yeah. Would I sign up for it? Not unless I'm getting some kind of benefit out of it.
Click to expand...

You mean like EVERYONE does from their taxes?
 
iguanaman said:
Are you saying you want to renounce your citizenship? That's the only way you can avoid paying like the rest of Americans. Actually the meme that conservatives are more "generous" has been disproven time and time again. Even Romney is a skinflint if you take away the 10% tax his religion charges and that IS a tax as it is not optional.
It seems that more and more citizens are getting the idea that if they don't like some Govt. program they don't need to pay for it. I'm afraid it always has and always will be an all or nothing proposition to be an American Citizen. Either you are one or you are not. So....what are you?
Click to expand...

Well, that's not necessarily true. It IS optional, in the sense that Mitt Romney can always not pay his tithe and tell the Mormon church to go piss up a tree; however, the Mormon church would push voters or contacts away from him if he did. It's a Mutual Back-Scratching Association, there.

I give money to charity all the time ... generally in small amounts, and certainly not 15% of my take-home income, but after taxes my take-home income isn't very high.
 
SBu said:
Hypothetical kind of a spin off of the thread on reps and dems empathy by aberrant:

Say the government offered a voluntary tax. One that you could sign up for that would increase your taxes by 15%. The money from that voluntary tax is exclusively used for government funded healthcare, food, and employment programs. This is not a tax applied to everyone, only if you agree to it.

Would you/could you afford to sign up for it?
Click to expand...

Didn't read carefully enough. So my taxes, and income taxes alone, would go up by 15 percent. Hey, I can handle that, and still give money to charity.
 
Kobie said:
You mean like EVERYONE does from their taxes?
Click to expand...

Like 4+ hour waiting periods in emergency rooms, police who are too busy arresting pot heads, and prisons who can't hold them? Or do you mean the public schools that allow illiterates to graduate, poorly maintained road and highway systems, a crippled economy that is causing the number of jobs to go down while the basic cost of living steadily increases? Our taxes aren't going toward benefits, they're going toward burdens that will take at least a century to un****. All while dumping trillions into other nations, whether it be to aid them, arm them, or bomb the ever loving **** out of them, which doesn't benefit us in any way. A lot of it actually harms us, and has severe long term ramifications that will come back to kick us in the ass.
 
Kobie said:
Didn't read carefully enough. So my taxes, and income taxes alone, would go up by 15 percent. Hey, I can handle that, and still give money to charity.
Click to expand...

Congratulations, you have won the "bleeding heart backed up by action" award. First person, and not even liberal or progressive, to say you would volunteer this burden. I do admire that you seem to be a person of conviction.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I think you figured it out. The liberals whine day in and day out about how much higher taxes should be, but they really mean taxes for everyone else. Their idealism goes straight out the window when it's their bank account in jeopardy.



Since when are taxes all or nothing? You claim very regularly that people other than yourself should pay much higher taxes, both in percentage and net, and they do.
Click to expand...

You seem to forget that income taxes rates have always and always will be based on what the taxpayer can afford to pay. Somehow that simple rule just goes right over your heads. You continue to forget that taxing people who spend all their income in the economy is self defeating as those taxes come right out of GDP. Taxing income not spent is far more efficient in a consumer economy. In other words a progressive tax system maximizes GDP growth. The decline in growth in the last 25 years is a least in part because of the reduction in progressivity of our tax structure.
The idea that some citizens can opt out of the social contract is ludicrous. Ihe desire to do so and to form a class based society would make our forefathers blood boil.
 
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