View Poll Results: Should owning property be a requirement to vote

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100. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes, only property owners should vote

    10 10.00%
  • no, let everyone vote

    90 90.00%
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Thread: Only property owners should vote

  1. #81
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    So in your opinion convicted felons, the insane and retarded people should vote?
    There are conservatives who consider me to be "retarded"......I am emotional...........take away my voting rights and you die ! ...or both of us die....obviously, this is dangerous...
    IMO, a man in prison should not vote, but I question this...
    The insane ?
    Depends on how insane and the definitions.....

  2. #82
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Neither. While I would rather see only land-owners vote, I think a better criteria would be individuals who have paid a net positive number in taxes for the previous year. If you didn't pay anything, or if you received the entire amount of your tax burden back in a refund, you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

  3. #83
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Voting is not a right, but a privilege granted or withheld at the discretion of local and state governments.
    There are two possible answers to that.

    1) "Voting is a privilege" in the US, because rights are not intrinsic; they are social constructions, granted by governments.
    2) We do have intrinsic rights, and voting -- or more specifically, citizens having a say in how they are governed -- is one of them. The US just doesn't recognize it as a right.

    Take your pick.

    Oh, and you skipped several other critical objections. No surprise there.

  4. #84
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    When George Washington was elected only 6% of the population could vote because you had to be a white male property owner over the age of 21. It wasn't until 1856 that the vote was expanded to include all white men. In 1868 black men got the vote and finally in 1920 women got the right to vote . It wasn't until 1972 that the voting age was lowered to 18 and the steady dumbing down of the voter pool was complete. Before people start screaming racist and misogynist that is not my point here. I'm fine with all races and women voting but we never should have dropped the property owner requirement and never should have lowered the voting age to 18. When you have reached a point in your life where you own property you have demonstrated the ability to participate in this society in a contributing way but the main thing is you have skin in the game. At this point you want America to be a stable functioning country that is prosperous and has an effective economy where your hard work will be rewarded and safe guarded. Kids and non property owners are going to vote on and for different issues than they will or would when they are a participating member of our economy and should not be allowed to vote until they do more than hang around the fringes. The extreme example of this is people on welfare voting and kids in school who have never had a job in their lives. These people have nothing to lose and everything to gain by voting against a thriving economy and for give away programs to benefit them and will vote in their own self interest instead of considering what is best for the country at large. IMO we should reinstate the original voting requirement of being a property owner.
    that might be the most illogical inane idea i read to day

    theres no justification for this at all lol, frankly this suggestion is mentally retarded and void of any logic what so ever.
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  5. #85
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    So you don't own property, as I thought.
    Owning or not owning property does NOT determine the quality of the man...
    It really has little to nothing to do with the "political process", which is people based.
    Or, how far back do you wish to go, Sawyer ?
    Kings and queens
    tribal chiefs and constant warfare
    king of the hill - the strongest takes all ... much like wild animals..

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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Why stop with property ownership?

    Let's disenfranchise senior citizens. Obviously, they care more about getting their free medical care and free money more than the health of the union.
    Let's disenfranchise anyone without a college education. People who can't finish college obviously aren't responsible enough to vote.
    Unemployment! Surely if you can't hold down a job, you will want the state to take care of you, and aren't responsible enough to vote.
    Let's require military service. If you don't love your country enough to shoot people for it, obviously you don't deserve to vote.
    How about a requirement to own stock, in an American company? Obviously that gives you skin in the game.

    Oh, screw it. Let's just give everyone a test. If anyone disagrees with Sawyer on any policy positions, they don't get to vote. I'm sure that will bring the number of eligible voters down to the original 5%.

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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    There are two possible answers to that.

    1) "Voting is a privilege" in the US, because rights are not intrinsic; they are social constructions, granted by governments.
    2) We do have intrinsic rights, and voting -- or more specifically, citizens having a say in how they are governed -- is one of them. The US just doesn't recognize it as a right.

    Take your pick.

    Oh, and you skipped several other critical objections. No surprise there.
    I focused on your first point because it was so critically wrong. Besides I don't play that game where you ask a dozen questions and "demand" I answer every one of them or accuse me of running. That is not honest debate it is cheap liberal tricks. The fact remains that their is no right to vote as their is a right to free speech for instance and try as you might to deny it voting is a privilege not a right.

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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    So few words, so many fundamental errors...

    Voting is a right. Not a privilege.
    Owning property is not a valid proxy for "good citizenship."
    Owning property is certainly not an indicator of intelligence or wisdom.
    Do you intend to disenfranchise people who inherited land?
    Property owners certainly aren't going to vote your way. If they did, Obama would not be President right now.

    More critically, it is not acceptable, and profoundly un-American, to say that "only people who I expect to act like X get to vote." The reality is that when citizens are free, they are going to make decisions that you personally do not agree with. That is the essence of liberty in a society -- not just "I get to do what I want," but also allowing others to make their own choices about how to be governed and how to live.



    ...no, we require people to obey laws for a variety of reasons, including securing the safety of citizens. States often revoke the *cough* right to vote as an additional punishment.
    1) Depends how you mean "a Right". IMHO: Right= something that will happen regardless of what anyone says or dosen't say.
    In that view its not a right.
    (Free Speach is a right as in you can't stop people from saying anything you can punish them afterward but you can't stop them in the first place)
    2) True. Owning Land dosen't automaticly make good citizenship. But it dose mean if you want to profit from the land you have a vested intrest in the area, and it's laws and goverment.
    3)Also True. it just a measurement of vested intrest. this point was mostly a restatement of point 2.
    4) Why would that factor in? Its not unheard of for landed gentry, in the past anyway, to pass there vote on to there children.
    5) Also a moot point as people will vote the way they want regardless how they get the vote. Its less likely to be a flippent or knee jerk vote if it cost them to make the vote but people will vote for what they think is best for the country, or themselves. (As most people think of themselves as part of the country)

    As for the rest of your comment.... Amen good Brother AMEN.

  9. #89
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Owning or not owning property does NOT determine the quality of the man...
    It really has little to nothing to do with the "political process", which is people based.
    Or, how far back do you wish to go, Sawyer ?
    Kings and queens
    tribal chiefs and constant warfare
    king of the hill - the strongest takes all ... much like wild animals..
    Yup. How about you can't vote unless you have a business operating out of an PO Box in the Cayman Islands? That would keep the uneducated and ill informed from voting for people or programs that would help them.

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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Owning or not owning property does NOT determine the quality of the man...
    It really has little to nothing to do with the "political process", which is people based.
    Or, how far back do you wish to go, Sawyer ?
    Kings and queens
    tribal chiefs and constant warfare
    king of the hill - the strongest takes all ... much like wild animals..
    1776 no farther.

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