View Poll Results: Should owning property be a requirement to vote

Voters
100. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes, only property owners should vote

    10 10.00%
  • no, let everyone vote

    90 90.00%
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Thread: Only property owners should vote

  1. #61
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Certainly persons who can't form rational political statements in complete sentences and presenting valid arguments ought never vote. But that's obvious to the casual observer.
    An obvious emotional response , I also do this...
    We must do what works best
    Seeking solutions from the past is counter-productive...
    ALL of the people must be included in the political discussion....and I believe that our nation is better due to this...

  2. #62
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Both bankers and borrowers are complicit in that practice whether you like it or not. Just because the government has some amount of influence in something doesn't make it the sole factor.

    It also doesn't shake the primary concern. Borrowers ARE borrowers. They don't own property or capital.
    When you borrow to purchase land you own that land until or unless you can't make your payments. This gives you incentive to vote for people and policy that will keep America sound and the economy strong.

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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    My property includes a smartphone, a laptop, a car, a TV and an xbox. I should be able to vote right? Or are you equating property with land?
    Property as defined in 1776 was land and that is the standard we should have now.

  4. #64
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    When you borrow to purchase land you own that land until or unless you can't make your payments. This gives you incentive to vote for people and policy that will keep America sound and the economy strong.
    That is a complete non-sequitur. People who rent don't have incentive to vote for policies that keep America's economy strong?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  5. #65
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    That is a complete non-sequitur. People who rent don't have incentive to vote for policies that keep America's economy strong?
    Not nearly as much as property owners no. You pay month to month and have nothing to lose. Someone who bought a home put money down, they pay a mortgage, they make improvements, they have the pride of ownership and have a lot to lose. You can shrug your shoulders and walk away, see the difference?

  6. #66
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    When you borrow to purchase land you own that land until or unless you can't make your payments. This gives you incentive to vote for people and policy that will keep America sound and the economy strong.
    Or to vote for policy that eases demands on borrowers.

    ... which is what immediately happened when borrowers were given the right to vote post-Revolutionary War, inciting riots, class conflict, and even the Whiskey Rebellion.

    Almost every single human being is on their own side, sympathizes with their own struggles, and anybody who gets in the way of their desires is an enemy.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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  7. #67
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Or to vote for policy that eases demands on borrowers.

    ... which is what immediately happened when borrowers were given the right to vote post-Revolutionary War, inciting riots, class conflict, and even the Whiskey Rebellion.
    If you already own land why would you vote for policy that eases demands on borrowers?

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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    As long as you own property you have a vote. If you have not demonstrated the drive or ability to buy land you have not demonstrated your ability to make good decisions so you can't vote or shouldn't anyway.
    So few words, so many fundamental errors...

    Voting is a right. Not a privilege.
    Owning property is not a valid proxy for "good citizenship."
    Owning property is certainly not an indicator of intelligence or wisdom.
    Do you intend to disenfranchise people who inherited land?
    Property owners certainly aren't going to vote your way. If they did, Obama would not be President right now.

    More critically, it is not acceptable, and profoundly un-American, to say that "only people who I expect to act like X get to vote." The reality is that when citizens are free, they are going to make decisions that you personally do not agree with. That is the essence of liberty in a society -- not just "I get to do what I want," but also allowing others to make their own choices about how to be governed and how to live.


    We require people to follow laws and not be convicted felons for this very reason.
    ...no, we require people to obey laws for a variety of reasons, including securing the safety of citizens. States often revoke the *cough* right to vote as an additional punishment.

  9. #69
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    When George Washington was elected only 6% of the population could vote because you had to be a white male property owner over the age of 21. It wasn't until 1856 that the vote was expanded to include all white men. In 1868 black men got the vote and finally in 1920 women got the right to vote . It wasn't until 1972 that the voting age was lowered to 18 and the steady dumbing down of the voter pool was complete. Before people start screaming racist and misogynist that is not my point here. I'm fine with all races and women voting but we never should have dropped the property owner requirement and never should have lowered the voting age to 18. When you have reached a point in your life where you own property you have demonstrated the ability to participate in this society in a contributing way but the main thing is you have skin in the game. At this point you want America to be a stable functioning country that is prosperous and has an effective economy where your hard work will be rewarded and safe guarded. Kids and non property owners are going to vote on and for different issues than they will or would when they are a participating member of our economy and should not be allowed to vote until they do more than hang around the fringes. The extreme example of this is people on welfare voting and kids in school who have never had a job in their lives. These people have nothing to lose and everything to gain by voting against a thriving economy and for give away programs to benefit them and will vote in their own self interest instead of considering what is best for the country at large. IMO we should reinstate the original voting requirement of being a property owner.
    The problem with your argument is that it 1) assumes property ownership is an adequate measure of responsibility, 2) assumes that people come to own property primarily, or solely, because of hard work, and 3) assumes that the values you attribute to property owners are what the qualifications for voting should be measured by.

    Each of those assumptions is false and thus, your argument does not stand up to scrutiny. Ultimately, everybody has "skin in the game". Indeed, I would say that many poor people who cannot afford to own property have more "skin in the game" than wealthy people because many of them depend on government resources like public education whereas their wealthy counterparts do not as they can afford to buy into things like private education. It's frankly absurd to say that those who cannot afford property should not be able to vote when they are seriously affected by the government.

    Ultimately, what you are proposing is a system that would cement class, race and other types of inequality even more than they already are and that is unacceptable. If you don't like the way certain people vote, then find a way to convince them to vote your way. However, proposing a way to simply disenfranchise them is not the way to go about it.

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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Do you own property?
    Define property.

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