View Poll Results: Should owning property be a requirement to vote

Voters
100. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes, only property owners should vote

    10 10.00%
  • no, let everyone vote

    90 90.00%
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Thread: Only property owners should vote

  1. #621
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    I didn't vote because I don't have a problem with a service requirement (allowing ANY real service to your fellow citizens. Even part time. Maybe shorten the requirement for combat vets, etc.).

    Nor a one-time basic civics test, as long as its carefully crafted to only make sure one at least understands the system they are participating in.

    Basing it upon those who have chosen the path of acquisitiveness and been successful at it raises one life path to supremacy over all others.

    That's bull**** AND will result in the best world for those who control it at the expense of everybody else.
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  2. #622
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    The more some in this thread post, the more I come to believe that's what it really is. They don't give a hoot about intelligent people voting, they simply want people who will vote their way so they can get what they want, and all the fluff is merely a way to frame it to attempt to make it acceptable to those of us who disagree.



    I have a great deal of respect for you and your opinions. I've learned something from you more than once. We agree often, but not always. That being said, it seems that everything comes back to Madison and/or the Founding Fathers, and sometimes you get on a roll and I wonder...

    ...Is there anything that Madison said or believed that you flat-out disagree with?

    Just curious.
    well madison laid the foundation of our government months before the constitutional convention, he took the notes of the convention, spoke more than anyone, proposed more things to it, stay after most delegates had left and worked on committee of style, wrote the bill of rights, part of the federalist papers, wrote more about the constitution during his life.

    he explains the constitution and its meaning and what our true form of government is.

    madison read a lot of books before the convention, that he had asked jefferson for on government, because he wanted to know WHY , in the end, ........a government fails.

    our structure of government was constructed for a reason, with many build in safeguards against the tyranny of majority rule/democracy, one was the privilege of the vote.

    madison knew that if the people with no property [ land or money,] could vote they would use the power of that vote ....towards injustice against those who had property....and we are seeing this play out today.

    in reading the founders, many of the things they warned us about, are coming true.

    as far as Madison in his writings of government, property, powers, rights, no i have not found any disagreement...... but

    i have found madison to be incorrect in his assessment in one area....he stated a bill of rights was not needed, becuase the constitution was a limiting document on the federal government, and becuase of that limit, the federal government could in no way violate the rights of the people, however he was incorrect, becuase he didn't foresee, the federal government stepping outside the constitution as the anti-federalist did, as they stated during the convention.

    he did later become an anti-federalist after the alien and sedition act.
    Last edited by Master PO; 10-01-13 at 05:03 PM.

  3. #623
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well madison laid the foundation of our government months before the constitutional convention, he took the notes of the convention, spoke more than anyone, proposed more things to it, stay after most delegates had left and worked on committee of style, wrote the bill of rights, part of the federalist papers, wrote more about the constitution during his life.

    he explains the constitution and its meaning and what our true form of government is.

    madison read a lot of books before the convention, that he had asked jefferson for on government, because he wanted to know WHY , in the end, ........a government fails.

    our structure of government was constructed for a reason, with many build in safeguards against the tyranny of majority rule/democracy, one was the privilege of the vote.

    madison knew that if the people with no property [ land or money,] could vote they would use the power of that vote ....towards injustice against those who had property....and we are seeing this play out today.

    in reading the founders, many of the things they warned us about, are coming true.

    as far as Madison in his writings of government, property, powers, rights, no i have not found any disagreement...... but

    i have found madison to be incorrect in his assessment in one area....he stated a bill of rights was not needed, becuase the constitution was a limiting document on the federal government, and becuase of that limit, the federal government could in no way violate the rights of the people, however he was incorrect, becuase he didn't foresee, the federal government stepping outside the constitution as the anti-federalist did, as they stated during the convention.

    he did later become an anti-federalist after the alien and sedition act.
    Good answer. Thank you.
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  4. #624
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    in the libertarian world of limited government, their are no sides, its about supreme law and what it says, and following that law................not about what people feel.
    And it is not only an illogical form of government, but impractical. The entire point is that people cannot agree on what is best for a country, with or without government. Taking the government out would allow a select few to gain a lot of power over the people because the Constitution does not protect us from other people, only the government.

    I can easily see a corporation such as the one on seaQuest, where their employees are basically owned by the corporation, given the rules and things they have to live by. Many of the things libertarians want to remove government from are the very things that help to protect us from such a thing happening. It certainly is a balancing act ensuring that the government doesn't take more power and do the same thing, but it is stupid to go back the other way and allow some other small group of people to have that power.
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  5. #625
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    my statement was clear........not every citizen pays federal income, and i stated that clearly, ......so for someone to go outside my statement, and say people pay taxes using a general statement, to counter mine, is incorrect and ......a slight of hand act.
    What unadulterated BS. Any discussion of taxation that does not include all of taxation is inherently intellectual fraud. The radical right wing is so obsessed with one tax that it loses perspective on this issue.

    Their gross intellectual dishonesty is rather pathetic.
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  6. #626
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What unadulterated BS. Any discussion of taxation that does not include all of taxation is inherently intellectual fraud. The radical right wing is so obsessed with one tax that it loses perspective on this issue.

    Their gross intellectual dishonesty is rather pathetic.
    radical right wing

  7. #627
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And it is not only an illogical form of government, but impractical. The entire point is that people cannot agree on what is best for a country, with or without government. Taking the government out would allow a select few to gain a lot of power over the people because the Constitution does not protect us from other people, only the government.

    I can easily see a corporation such as the one on seaQuest, where their employees are basically owned by the corporation, given the rules and things they have to live by. Many of the things libertarians want to remove government from are the very things that help to protect us from such a thing happening. It certainly is a balancing act ensuring that the government doesn't take more power and do the same thing, but it is stupid to go back the other way and allow some other small group of people to have that power.
    taking a government out?

    government is to be limited, and its primary duty is to secure the rights of the people, that is why government is instituted.

    libertarians do not want to remove government ,they want government in its proper place, the federal government has its powers, and the states have there's, .......with the states having vast powers, while the federal government powers are few and defined.

    it is the states who make up the compact, not the federal government.
    Last edited by Master PO; 10-01-13 at 11:11 PM.

  8. #628
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    taking a government out?

    government is to be limited, and its primary duty is to secure the rights of the people, that is why government is instituted.

    libertarians do not want to remove government ,they want government in its proper place, the federal government has its powers, and the states have there's, .......with the states having vast powers, while the federal government powers are few and defined.

    it is the states who make up the compact, not the federal government.
    The US cannot operate as it did when it first started, with the states having massive powers. It simply won't work. We have too many people in the US who move around. This isn't the 18th Century, it is the 21st. And here, in the 21st Century it is simply not practical to not ensure that all states operate pretty close to each other.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The US cannot operate as it did when it first started, with the states having massive powers. It simply won't work. We have too many people in the US who move around. This isn't the 18th Century, it is the 21st. And here, in the 21st Century it is simply not practical to not ensure that all states operate pretty close to each other.

    so your opinion is.....cast the constitution aside.....we shall make our own rules.

    federalist 39--Each State, in ratifying the Constitution, is considered as a sovereign body, independent of all others, and only to be bound by its own voluntary act. In this relation, then, the new Constitution will, if established, be a FEDERAL, and not a NATIONAL constitution.

  10. #630
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    so your opinion is.....cast the constitution aside.....we shall make our own rules.
    My opinion is that there is no need to cast aside the Constitution. It is not the Articles of Confederation. It is already set up just fine to deal with our current century without major changes. Many of the changes needed for it to adapt have already been made in the forms of Amendments put in place over the last century or more, basically since the original Bill of Rights.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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