View Poll Results: Should owning property be a requirement to vote

Voters
100. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes, only property owners should vote

    10 10.00%
  • no, let everyone vote

    90 90.00%
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Thread: Only property owners should vote

  1. #571
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    sales tax? there is none if you don't buy anything
    gasoline tax? ride a bike

    The conversation was income tax, try to keep up
    those taxes don't work for class warfare because if you hike the sales tax everyone pays the higher rate

    not good for buying the votes of the parasites by sticking it to the producers



  2. #572
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    sales tax? there is none if you don't buy anything
    gasoline tax? ride a bike

    The conversation was income tax, try to keep up
    and there is no income tax to pay if one has no income. So there is no difference.

    Right wing fringe wacko's want to restrict the discussion to the income tax - but that is not going to happen.
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  3. #573
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I could not give two craps about your side. Screw the so called sides. I want YOU - TURTLE DUDE - YOU - to back up your own posts with a formula that can be applied and screw all the rest of the crap that you want to use to hide the reality that you are impotent to present it .
    easy

    if you pay more than what you get you are a net tax payer

    and that amount is best set at what is the average amount of income tax one pays

    that will get you close



  4. #574
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    and there is no income tax to pay if one has no income. So there is no difference.

    Right wing fringe wacko's want to restrict the discussion to the income tax - but that is not going to happen.

    I like how you throw around the term "right wing fringe whacko


    the founders must be that too since they didn't want income taxes

    and what is the opposite of a right wing whacko?



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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    easy

    if you pay more than what you get you are a net tax payer
    Terrific. Now provide me with the formula to determine both of those calculations.
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  6. #576
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    and there is no income tax to pay if one has no income. So there is no difference.

    Right wing fringe wacko's want to restrict the discussion to the income tax - but that is not going to happen.
    thank you, no income, no vote. Left wing moonbats want to deflect instead of discussing the topic at hand


  7. #577
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Terrific. Now provide me with the formula to determine both of those calculations.
    why? that is not relevant to the point. its the pandering that matters

    some might think they are net payers and will vote that way even if they are consumers and there might be some on the other side as well

    the fact is-a system that panders to net tax consumers will go bankrupt as they constantly vote themselves more and more wealth of others



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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    thank you, no income, no vote. Left wing moonbats want to deflect instead of discussing the topic at hand

    Your position is losing 80 to 5. Deal with that reality. That is the freaking topic at hand.
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  9. #579
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    thank you, no income, no vote. Left wing moonbats want to deflect instead of discussing the topic at hand

    excellent-is it wearing a purple tutu?



  10. #580
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why? that is not relevant to the point. its the pandering that matters

    some might think they are net payers and will vote that way even if they are consumers and there might be some on the other side as well

    the fact is-a system that panders to net tax consumers will go bankrupt as they constantly vote themselves more and more wealth of others
    The point is what it has been for the last two years Turtle - you throw around this NET TAXPER BS but you are impotent to provide any formula to apply it to people.

    Let us take the case of a couple - the Smith family - who have an income of $120K per year. This is far more than average and places them in the supposed desired class of the net taxpayer according to the logic of Turtle as they pay far more than the average. However, any such determination that does not examine the actual government services used by the Smith family is extremely incomplete and flawed.

    Let us say that the Smith's over all tax payments are in the range of 30%. This means they have paid about $37K in taxes to all levels of government in a year. Now let us say that the Smith's have four children ranging in ages from seven to sixteen years of age and are in the local public school. If they live in a state like New Jersey, where Governor Christie says it costs over $20K per year for one students education if they are in the Newark pubic school system, that is a cost of over $80K for the children of the Smith family. Now please keep in mind that I cannot find any source which says Christie is right. Sources I can locate say the expenditure is closer to $17K per pupil in his state. But let us assume that the governor of that state knows more than the rest of us and we will use his figure. IOf we use the lower figure it is still $68K for the Smith's education. And if they live in a lower cost state like where the per pupil cost is only half of that, the cost of education for the Smith children is still over $40K per year. Not even taking into account any other single government service, they already are tax vampires sucking up far more than they contribute. Despite their above average income and the taxes they pay on it and for other things, they are nowhere near being a net taxpayer.

    And this illustrates the absolute folly and impossibility of identifying who and who is not a net taxpayer. If you cannot accurately define it and identify the rubric being used, the methodology being used and the information necessary to make the judgment, how can you then apply this to anyone with any degree of accuracy at all? Obviously you cannot.

    The Smith family would be different than a childless couple and both couples would be different than a couple with six children in school. Everyones situation is individual and different and that is a key point.
    Now take all aspects of taxation and all aspects of government service and every American and come up with your determination of who is and who is not a net taxpayer and who is a tax vampire. it simply cannot be done with any accuracy or specificity.

    And the real nightmare here is the political power grab behind this bogus idea has been floated in right wing circles and on this board that people who are not net taxpayers should be disenfranchised and stripped of their citizens right to vote in public elections. That is staggering and one of the most anti-democratic and anti-American ideas I have ever heard. And when you see that is is based on a fiction that cannot be identified or quantified, its even more of an outrage and abomination.

    If I am wrong, if you are wrong, and there is a precise definition of the net taxpayer I would certainly like to see it, all the information which goes into it, the methodology used to make that judgment, the formula for applications, and other specifics which are important to have to understand the concept. I await such information.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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