View Poll Results: Should owning property be a requirement to vote

Voters
100. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes, only property owners should vote

    10 10.00%
  • no, let everyone vote

    90 90.00%
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Thread: Only property owners should vote

  1. #561
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    Income taxes was the conversation, but deflection is just part of you I guess
    income taxes are the ones that take up most of the conversation when it comes to politics because its the one politicians use to buy votes since they can promise the many all sorts of goodies paid for by jacking up the rates on the few. sales taxes don't have that Us vs Them or Producers vs Looters dichotomies



  2. #562
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Why are you only using one tax and ignoring all the others people pay?
    see post 561 for edification



  3. #563
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you seem to think that not being able to name the exact point doesn't mean there aren't both kinds of groups

    the fact is-democrats pander to net tax consumers and advocate tax policies that garner the votes of such people while the GOP policies favor net tax payers
    Lets leave the hypothetical BS behind shall we. Here is a real case. tell me if they are net taxpayers or not?

    Let us take the case of a couple - the Smith family - who have an income of $120K per year. This is far more than average and places them in the supposed desired class of the net taxpayer according to the logic of Turtle as they pay far more than the average. However, any such determination that does not examine the actual government services used by the Smith family is extremely incomplete and flawed.

    Let us say that the Smith's over all tax payments are in the range of 30%. This means they have paid about $37K in taxes to all levels of government in a year. Now let us say that the Smith's have four children ranging in ages from seven to sixteen years of age and are in the local public school. If they live in a state like New Jersey, where Governor Christie says it costs over $20K per year for one students education if they are in the Newark pubic school system, that is a cost of over $80K for the children of the Smith family. Now please keep in mind that I cannot find any source which says Christie is right. Sources I can locate say the expenditure is closer to $17K per pupil in his state. But let us assume that the governor of that state knows more than the rest of us and we will use his figure. IOf we use the lower figure it is still $68K for the Smith's education. And if they live in a lower cost state like where the per pupil cost is only half of that, the cost of education for the Smith children is still over $40K per year. Not even taking into account any other single government service, they already are tax vampires sucking up far more than they contribute. Despite their above average income and the taxes they pay on it and for other things, they are nowhere near being a net taxpayer.

    And this illustrates the absolute folly and impossibility of identifying who and who is not a net taxpayer. If you cannot accurately define it and identify the rubric being used, the methodology being used and the information necessary to make the judgment, how can you then apply this to anyone with any degree of accuracy at all? Obviously you cannot.

    The Smith family would be different than a childless couple and both couples would be different than a couple with six children in school. Everyones situation is individual and different and that is a key point.
    Now take all aspects of taxation and all aspects of government service and every American and come up with your determination of who is and who is not a net taxpayer and who is a tax vampire. it simply cannot be done with any accuracy or specificity.

    And the real nightmare here is the political power grab behind this bogus idea has been floated in right wing circles and on this board that people who are not net taxpayers should be disenfranchised and stripped of their citizens right to vote in public elections. That is staggering and one of the most anti-democratic and anti-American ideas I have ever heard. And when you see that is is based on a fiction that cannot be identified or quantified, its even more of an outrage and abomination.

    If I am wrong, if you are wrong, and there is a precise definition of the net taxpayer I would certainly like to see it, all the information which goes into it, the methodology used to make that judgment, the formula for applications, and other specifics which are important to have to understand the concept. I await such information.
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  4. #564
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Why are you only using one tax and ignoring all the others people pay?
    because the others are elective, income taxes are a requirement

  5. #565
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    income taxes are the ones that take up most of the conversation QUOTE]
    only from the far right wing fringe who want to ignore all other taxes.
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  6. #566
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    tl dr (again)

    you miss the entire point

    your side wants to pander to net tax consumers

    my side supports people like me-the ones who supply the milk to the public teat



  7. #567
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    because the others are elective, income taxes are a requirement
    Other taxes are not required? Sales tax is not required to pay? Property tax is not required to pay?

    Your statement makes no logical sense in the real world.
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  8. #568
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post

    only from the far right wing fringe who want to ignore all other taxes.
    so its far right wing fringe to note that income taxes are the political football (along with the surcharge on the rich-the death tax)

    who is arguing about say excise taxes or real estate taxes



  9. #569
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Other taxes are not required?
    sales tax? there is none if you don't buy anything
    gasoline tax? ride a bike

    The conversation was income tax, try to keep up

  10. #570
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    tl dr (again)

    you miss the entire point

    your side wants to pander to net tax consumers

    my side supports people like me-the ones who supply the milk to the public teat
    I could not give two craps about your side. Screw the so called sides. I want YOU - TURTLE DUDE - YOU - to back up your own posts with a formula that can be applied and screw all the rest of the crap that you want to use to hide the reality that you are impotent to present it .
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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