View Poll Results: Should owning property be a requirement to vote

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100. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes, only property owners should vote

    10 10.00%
  • no, let everyone vote

    90 90.00%
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Thread: Only property owners should vote

  1. #521
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    We need to start educating kids in school when they're young on how to budget their money, credit, the stock market, etc. I think that schools spend a minimal amount of time on these important life skills. This would be a much more useful skill to many more people than say algebra.

    Point is though, no matter what we do, there will always be poor people, and they are entitled to their opinions and votes as citizens whether or not you agree with them.
    i agree, when i went to school we were taught how to budget money, balance a check book.

    yes there will always be poor people, even Jesus say that"the poor will always be with you, ...becuase when people have liberty to choose their own path, you will have winners and losers, ..the losers have to keep trying.

    i agree people should be able to vote, however i favor repealing the 17th amendment and retuning to true...republican government........returning a state voice in the federal government, to keep the collectivist nature of the people in check.

  2. #522
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    It is accepted as a right, and you know it is. It is called the right to vote.
    It doesn't exist, Chris. The Constitution never explicitly grants the people the right to vote. The Constitution only references ways that it cannot be denied or abridged based solely on the aforementioned qualifications. Besides those prohibited forms of discrimination the states may deny people the right to vote for any reason they desire. Legally speaking at least it's not accepted as a right.

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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    No, but they pay less taxes than others, so perhaps we should strip them of their right to vote too. Oh, let's just take ALL of their rights.

    You know, I know some poor people that have MUCH more character, personality and morals and values than any wealthy person. I guess people like Paris Hilton, Miley Cyrus etc. get a pass. What makes people think that because a person is having a hard time in life means they somehow deserve to lose any of their rights is beyond my understanding.

    There is nothing wrong with using the services that WE provide to help the poor not starve. As a matter of fact, it would selfish not to if you have kids. Have your kids go hungry because of pride?
    These same people are the reason we have the current President that is destroying thousands of lives with his ACA legislation. My company announced some changes today due to the provisions in that legislation. Now after 30 years of having great insurance I am going to have sucky insurance, that is a nice reward so those people can **** up my world.

  4. #524
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    So anyone who doesn't have a net income tax burden is a "kid that mooches off his parents and the government until he/she is 30"?
    Oh god now you are claiming illiteracy

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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    It doesn't exist, Chris. The Constitution never explicitly grants the people the right to vote. The Constitution only references ways that it cannot be denied or abridged based solely on the aforementioned qualifications. Besides those prohibited forms of discrimination the states may deny people the right to vote for any reason they desire. Legally speaking at least it's not accepted as a right.
    Seems to be pretty much the equivalent of a right to me.

    The Voting Rights Act of 1965 (42 U.S.C. 1973–1973aa-6)[2] is a landmark piece of national legislation in the United States that prohibits discrimination in voting.[3] Echoing the language of the Fifteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, the Act prohibits states and local governments from imposing any "voting qualification or prerequisite to voting, or standard, practice, or procedure ... to deny or abridge the right of any citizen of the United States to vote on account of race or color."[4] It was signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson, who had earlier signed the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964 into law.[3][5]

  6. #526
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    It is not a right regardless of what is included in the Constitutional wording of amendments relating to those who may not be disenfranchised...
    1) 9th Amendment: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

    I.e. the Bill of Rights was never intended to be an exhaustive or complete list of rights. In fact, treating it that way was Hamilton's fear.


    2) As already noted, the Constitution explicitly refers to a right to vote.

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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    You are reacting emotionally instead of intellectually. If you think something is crap, explain why.
    No, she's spot on. You're elitist view would eventually lead to the kind of civil wars we see in other countries now.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Seems to be pretty much the equivalent of a right to me.
    Yes, that unconstitutional garbage. There is no such thing as an equivalent of a right. It either is a right or it's not. As it stands even with that law the states are only barred from certain practices while others are perfectly legal. Of course, the federal government has no authority to be involved in the matter at all.

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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    1) 9th Amendment: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

    I.e. the Bill of Rights was never intended to be an exhaustive or complete list of rights. In fact, treating it that way was Hamilton's fear.


    2) As already noted, the Constitution explicitly refers to a right to vote.
    Sigh. Voting is a legal matter, not a natural right. The ninth amendment has no bearing on the case.

  10. #530
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Look, call it whatever you want, it's wrong and it's an infringement on our fellow citizens. It's horrible idea.

    Well, I disagree. For one thing, your time on welfare is limited. You cannot collect indefinitely.
    That's fine. Diminished voting power should be restored as people's reliance on welfare reverses.

    What should happen is to reduce fraud and waste and to target those who are collecting it that don't really need it.
    For one thing, they already do this, but it is difficult to do. "Targeting those who are collecting it that don't really need it" requires gathering data/evidence of fraud, and prying into people's lives to pin down this verifiable facts is difficult and can be time consuming and thus expensive enough that it might outweigh the money saved by rooting out the fraud. Private charitable givers can stop giving on a mere intuition or hunch. Government cannot. It is not possible to efficiently identify and cut off insincere people from welfare and related social assistance programs.

    But anyway, tying voting power to reliance on welfare would not be some underhanded scheme to reduce fraud. That would not be the point. It would simply be promoting consistency with regard to legal and financial dependence vs. independence.

    I'm FAR from rich, and I have no problem with helping my fellow Americans with my taxpayer monies temporarily until they can get a job and make a living wage.
    Many people feel this way, but there is considerable waste and (in my opinion) societal decay when we institute them permanently and statutorily in that, over time, it trains actors (malingerers) about the system and how to work it to their advantage. You were right when you said that there will always be poor people, and poor people learn and employ creative ways to get their needs met (benefit-seeking is in their rational best interests). They learn to work the system well enough that it would probably be more expensive to officially catch them faking it and administratively kick them off the rolls than it would to just keep sending them the damn benefits.

    I don't think that being poor is always a person's fault but of circumstances sometimes.
    It's pretty much always partly their fault and partly not their fault. If you assess only their decision making since turning 18, it will look like it's largely their fault, often times. If you ask them about their parents and the household in which they grew up, it will seem like they have been quite a victim of ****ty circumstances most of their lives. Who cares whose fault it is? Whoever's "fault" it is that a given person is struggling in life is a very subjective thing to toss around. This stuff is not about blaming anyone.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 09-26-13 at 09:52 PM.

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