View Poll Results: Should owning property be a requirement to vote

Voters
100. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes, only property owners should vote

    10 10.00%
  • no, let everyone vote

    90 90.00%
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Thread: Only property owners should vote

  1. #501
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well if that's what you're using, then be prepared to strip the right to vote away from half the citizens in the United States. The economy sucks and people need help. I certainly don't see that as any kind of a reason to strip a right from a legitimate citizen, regardless of whether they are receiving help from taxpayer money.
    I've explained it over and over. The reason to discount the weight of the vote (notice: not advocating "stripping" the right entirely) is as a basic protection against the majority voting themselves money from the treasury. This type of abuse is the archetypal weakness of democracy and this policy would be a rational protective measure against it.

    I would MUCH rather my taxpayer dollars pay for a poor American family than go to Pakistan or Afghanistan or whatever stan.
    You won't see me defend our non-defensive military interventions in oil rich middle eastern nations. But that doesn't mean we should be throwing public money at anyone who demonstrates neediness necessarily either. But if we do throw money at people, absolving them of their financial responsibilities, it should come with some degree of sacrifice of some of the other rights and responsibilities that fully independent adults have. Rights and responsibilities need to be a package deal. If we're going to let people ditch half their adult responsibilities to provide for themselves and their families, well okay, but then there is no rational reason they should still retain all of their voting power, as that is a very clear conflict of interest.

  2. #502
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    actuality the founders did not want people who had no stake in america to vote, becuase they knew that those with no interest, would use the power of the vote, to take from those that had an interest [property], using injustice to do it.


    James madison--This term in its particular application means "that dominion which one man claims and exercises over the external things of the world, in exclusion of every other individual."

    In its larger and juster meaning, it embraces every thing to which a man may attach a value and have a right; and which leaves to every one else the like advantage.

    In the former sense, a man's land, or merchandize, or money is called his property.



    James Madison --The right of suffrage is a fundamental Article in Republican Constitutions. The regulation of it is, at the same time, a task of peculiar delicacy. Allow the right exclusively to property, and the rights of persons may be oppressed. The feudal polity alone sufficiently proves it. Extend it equally to all, and the rights of property or the claims of justice may be overruled by a majority without property, or interested in measures of injustice. Of this abundant proof is afforded by other popular Govts.[democracy] and is not without examples in our own, particularly in the laws impairing the obligation of contracts.



    Property: James Madison, Property

    Property: James Madison, Note to His Speech on the Right of Suffrage
    The only thing you need to fear as far as getting your property taken away from you is the government when you start allowing them to take away rights from citizens, regardless of their socioeconomic status in society.

    I have to keep specifying "socioeconomic" status or else people will jump on me about prisoners and children.

  3. #503
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Yes, he proposed much larger subsidies for those who qualified for his Negative Income Tax proposal. Congress cut back a little on his proposed subsidies, and added the requirement that anyone who qualifies for the EITC must be employed. (The EITC vs. the NIT | National Review Online)
    All true and like I said he made it clear he was unhappy about the changes.

    I'm afraid your recollection is incorrect. He was on the President's Economic Policy Advisory Board for the entirety of Reagan's term.
    Ok, so I remembered incorrectly then. In any event, he was from the Chicago school and while it's true he softened some of it's underlining principles he was still a leftist that favored egalitarianism and Keynesian economics. Not that he would admit it outright. It was always some sort of "this is a compromise" bull**** going on with him that I have no reason to believe. The whole last chapter of Capitalism and Freedom proves my point well enough.

  4. #504
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Most people who "think" they are property owners, are not.
    If they stopped making payments for just a few months, they'd be on the street.

    At the current rate of the wealthy owning more and more of the pie and the poor owning less and less, we are headed to a point in time where a small few own everything and everyone else owns nothing.
    Under this ideology, Republicans could finally have their way and a few corporations would elect our Politicians.

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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I've explained it over and over. The reason to discount the weight of the vote (notice: not advocating "stripping" the right entirely) is as a basic protection against the majority voting themselves money from the treasury. This type of abuse is the archetypal weakness of democracy and this policy would be a rational protective measure against it.
    Look, call it whatever you want, it's wrong and it's an infringement on our fellow citizens. It's horrible idea.

    You won't see me defend our non-defensive military interventions in oil rich middle eastern nations. But that doesn't mean we should be throwing public money at anyone who demonstrates neediness necessarily either. But if we do throw money at people, absolving them of their financial responsibilities, it should come with some degree of sacrifice of some of the other rights and responsibilities that fully independent adults have. Rights and responsibilities need to be a package deal. If we're going to let people ditch half their responsibilities, there is no rational reason they should retain all of their voting power, as that is a very clear conflict of interest.
    Well, I disagree. For one thing, your time on welfare is limited. You cannot collect indefinitely. It is meant as a helping hand. What should happen is to reduce fraud and waste and to target those who are collecting it that don't really need it. I'm FAR from rich, and I have no problem with helping my fellow Americans with my taxpayer monies temporarily until they can get a job and make a living wage. I don't think that being poor is always a person's fault but of circumstances sometimes. And an important thing to remember is that there just aren't enough jobs to go around, especially GOOD jobs.

  6. #506
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    The only thing you need to fear as far as getting your property taken away from you is the government when you start allowing them to take away rights from citizens, regardless of their socioeconomic status in society.

    I have to keep specifying "socioeconomic" status or else people will jump on me about prisoners and children.
    well remember property...can be land or money, anything that value is attached to it.

    if a person has no stake in our nation, meaning paying no income taxes,...do they care if they are raised?.....no.

    people use their vote all the time, to vote for people to promise to take from one and give to the other, using government power.


    tax the rich, ...the rich are evil and greedy, they need to pay their fair share..........use by politicians and people all the time, to drum up votes.....for getting even.

  7. #507
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Look, call it whatever you want, it's wrong and it's an infringement on our fellow citizens. It's horrible idea.



    Well, I disagree. For one thing, your time on welfare is limited. You cannot collect indefinitely. It is meant as a helping hand. What should happen is to reduce fraud and waste and to target those who are collecting it that don't really need it. I'm FAR from rich, and I have no problem with helping my fellow Americans with my taxpayer monies temporarily until they can get a job and make a living wage. I don't think that being poor is always a person's fault but of circumstances sometimes. And an important thing to remember is that there just aren't enough jobs to go around, especially GOOD jobs.
    If their situation is temporary, why would you have a problem with a temporary suspension of their voting privilege?
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  8. #508
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    Most people who "think" they are property owners, are not.
    If they stopped making payments for just a few months, they'd be on the street.

    At the current rate of the wealthy owning more and more of the pie and the poor owning less and less, we are headed to a point in time where a small few own everything and everyone else owns nothing.
    Under this ideology, Republicans could finally have their way and a few corporations would elect our Politicians.
    And not wanting to lose your property entices you to vote for people and policy that makes the economy stronger and your property more secure.

  9. #509
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well remember property...can be land or money, anything that value is attached to it.

    if a person has no stake in our nation, meaning paying no income taxes,...do they care if they are raised?.....no.

    people use their vote all the time, to vote for people to promise to take from one and give to the other, using government power.


    tax the rich, ...the rich are evil and greedy, they need to pay their fair share..........use by politicians and people all the time, to drum up votes.....for getting even.
    We need to start educating kids in school when they're young on how to budget their money, credit, the stock market, etc. I think that schools spend a minimal amount of time on these important life skills. This would be a much more useful skill to many more people than say algebra.

    Point is though, no matter what we do, there will always be poor people, and they are entitled to their opinions and votes as citizens whether or not you agree with them.

  10. #510
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    If their situation is temporary, why would you have a problem with a temporary suspension of their voting privilege?
    Because it's a right not a privilege.

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