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Only property owners should vote

Should owning property be a requirement to vote

  • yes, only property owners should vote

    Votes: 6 7.3%

  • no, let everyone vote

    Votes: 76 92.7%
  • Total voters
    82
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sawyerloggingon said:
When George Washington was elected only 6% of the population could vote because you had to be a white male property owner over the age of 21. It wasn't until 1856 that the vote was expanded to include all white men. In 1868 black men got the vote and finally in 1920 women got the right to vote . It wasn't until 1972 that the voting age was lowered to 18 and the steady dumbing down of the voter pool was complete. Before people start screaming racist and misogynist that is not my point here. I'm fine with all races and women voting but we never should have dropped the property owner requirement and never should have lowered the voting age to 18. When you have reached a point in your life where you own property you have demonstrated the ability to participate in this society in a contributing way but the main thing is you have skin in the game. At this point you want America to be a stable functioning country that is prosperous and has an effective economy where your hard work will be rewarded and safe guarded. Kids and non property owners are going to vote on and for different issues than they will or would when they are a participating member of our economy and should not be allowed to vote until they do more than hang around the fringes. The extreme example of this is people on welfare voting and kids in school who have never had a job in their lives. These people have nothing to lose and everything to gain by voting against a thriving economy and for give away programs to benefit them and will vote in their own self interest instead of considering what is best for the country at large. IMO we should reinstate the original voting requirement of being a property owner.
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What would be interesting would be an optimization model for society. Without that I do not see how the question can be answered. Of hand, I do not know of any papers that do that.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I focused on your first point because it was so critically wrong.
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Is it?

Why is voting a "privilege?" Who decided that? What criteria did they use? Are the only people who can declare what is or is not a right, a bunch of dead white politicians from the late 18th century? Why do other nations recognize it as a right, rather than a privilege?

Besides, you obviously don't care about anyone's rights. What you care about is making sure that people vote the way you want them to vote.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Anyway I have to get to work and thank you to the few people that debated this topic intelligently. The rest of you that went ballistic and threw temper tantrums reinforce my opinion in the OP. You react emotionally and are not property owners because you have made poor decisions for yourselves and IMO you should not be allowed to make poor decisions for America. GET A JOB!
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What about me! Oh, I don't have a job. I'm retired. I guess you don't want me to vote.
 
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sawyerloggingon said:
I want to go back to common sense which is something our founders had in abundance and is very rare today as your post proves nicely.
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The founders had the concept called "no taxation without representation". Apparently you don't believe in that.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Literacy test were tried in the late 1800s and were immediately labeled racist and thrown out.
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Actually they stuck around until the mid 1900's in the South, along with general education tests and the so-called 'poll taxes'. Condi Rice tells the story of how her dad became a Republican in the deep south. Her mom was very light skinned and was asked who the first President was, her dad, very dark was asked how many candies were in a jar. The Republican clerk heard that and told her dad the GOP has no such hoops to jump through and Condi's dad became a Republican that day. (and today it is the GOP who wants to 'tighten up' voting regulations... wadda world.... ;) )

One thing that runs against your story is all white men had the vote, from illiterate factory/farm/mine workers to the Rockerfellers as our nation rose to power.

While 18 year old and minority men can be a large segment is some parts of the nation the biggest influx, nationally, of voters are women. So you seem to be blaming the dumbing down of the vote on women being allowed to vote...

Another fella opined only taxpayers should vote in national elections- silly qualification, all that takes to circumvent is everyone sending the IRS a penny, which would cost more to process than it is worth.
 
Let everybody vote but only count some as part of a vote.



Really?
 
Torrent said:
No. All Property was fought for. The looser through out history got killed, got removed, or became citizens of the new owners. Its a argument that ticks me off alot. In europe, asia, africa, austrialia it was more or less fine that people got removed from there land due to theft, loss in war, treason, and trickery. but in north and south america its the worst ever? And the native people where fighting and tradeing territory long before the europeans showed up.
As far as should Property owners have exclusive votes... I'm more along the lines of vote should be limited to those that want to pay a set % of there income. Like 10% so the people that don't care at all or don't add anything to the system don't get a vote just "cuz". But anyone that wants to can. You want a say in the country pay for it.
Its the problem of that the vote of someone who spent hours doing 'homework' on the subjects and politics, has the same power as the vote just cuz the R or D, or something even more stupid. ( I like this one's race, or becuase I hated the other guys race. etc)
If there is a cost to voteing it won't elemenate knee jerk voteing but it will limit it to the people that actually care.
(but you would have to be very careful as it could be abused)
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Just had to throw that race card down, didnt ya.
 
notquiteright said:
Another fella opined only taxpayers should vote in national elections- silly qualification, all that takes to circumvent is everyone sending the IRS a penny, which would cost more to process than it is worth.
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Buy a gallon of gasoline and you've paid federal tax.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
When George Washington was elected only 6% of the population could vote because you had to be a white male property owner over the age of 21. It wasn't until 1856 that the vote was expanded to include all white men. In 1868 black men got the vote and finally in 1920 women got the right to vote . It wasn't until 1972 that the voting age was lowered to 18 and the steady dumbing down of the voter pool was complete. Before people start screaming racist and misogynist that is not my point here. I'm fine with all races and women voting but we never should have dropped the property owner requirement and never should have lowered the voting age to 18. When you have reached a point in your life where you own property you have demonstrated the ability to participate in this society in a contributing way but the main thing is you have skin in the game. At this point you want America to be a stable functioning country that is prosperous and has an effective economy where your hard work will be rewarded and safe guarded. Kids and non property owners are going to vote on and for different issues than they will or would when they are a participating member of our economy and should not be allowed to vote until they do more than hang around the fringes. The extreme example of this is people on welfare voting and kids in school who have never had a job in their lives. These people have nothing to lose and everything to gain by voting against a thriving economy and for give away programs to benefit them and will vote in their own self interest instead of considering what is best for the country at large. IMO we should reinstate the original voting requirement of being a property owner.
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I think we should only let poor people vote. They are the ones that need govt.most. If you make $100,000 or more a year you are banned from voting.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
On the contrary I think people buying property so they could vote would force them into buying part of America and caring more about America than their own self interest.
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stock-footage-abstract-cgi-motion-graphics-and-animated-background-of-many-squares-organized-in-.jpg



Personally I think we should give the idea presented in the OP some serious consideration. I see a business opportunity here which could make me millions.

Take for example the concept from the image above. Now I go out into the middle of no-where and buy a couple of acre (or even miles) of worthless land. I just did a quick check and I can buy desert in New Mexico for about $2,500 per acre. There are 6,272,640 square inches in an acre of land.

If I sell the land by the square inch at $100 each (not including Title fees, etc.) - hmmm - that's $627,264,000 (627 Million). Not bad for a $2,500 investment.



OK - I'm in.


>>>>
 
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sawyerloggingon said:
When George Washington was elected only 6% of the population could vote because you had to be a white male property owner over the age of 21. It wasn't until 1856 that the vote was expanded to include all white men. In 1868 black men got the vote and finally in 1920 women got the right to vote . It wasn't until 1972 that the voting age was lowered to 18 and the steady dumbing down of the voter pool was complete. Before people start screaming racist and misogynist that is not my point here. I'm fine with all races and women voting but we never should have dropped the property owner requirement and never should have lowered the voting age to 18. When you have reached a point in your life where you own property you have demonstrated the ability to participate in this society in a contributing way but the main thing is you have skin in the game. At this point you want America to be a stable functioning country that is prosperous and has an effective economy where your hard work will be rewarded and safe guarded. Kids and non property owners are going to vote on and for different issues than they will or would when they are a participating member of our economy and should not be allowed to vote until they do more than hang around the fringes. The extreme example of this is people on welfare voting and kids in school who have never had a job in their lives. These people have nothing to lose and everything to gain by voting against a thriving economy and for give away programs to benefit them and will vote in their own self interest instead of considering what is best for the country at large. IMO we should reinstate the original voting requirement of being a property owner.
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Well, times have changed. Then, our tax system was based primarily on taxation of property and tariffs. Now it is mostly funded by income taxation.

Those who are net users of government money rather than net contributors, are the ones who should not vote if that's what you are looking for.
 
ChrisL said:
This thread. It belongs in the crapper as a matter of fact.
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I disagree.

The major problems we have in government is because people vote for who will return the goods to them. For those who will redistribute other people's money.

This needs to stop. At some point, you run out of "other people's money."
 
ChrisL said:
All US citizens have the RIGHT to vote.
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True. I think it should be changed. Only productive citizens should vote, rather than those who vote politicians promising "leech" bills.
 
ChrisL said:
People who don't own property also pay taxes, income taxes, sales taxes, etc.

Oh and also renters help those home owners pay off their mortgages.
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That's why I include those who have a net payment to the government rather than a net user of government monies.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
As long as you own property you have a vote. If you have not demonstrated the drive or ability to buy land you have not demonstrated your ability to make good decisions so you can't vote or shouldn't anyway.
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Actually many times time investing in real estate shows a complete lack of ability to make good decisions.
,
For instance, many people bought their homes during the height of the housing bubble. They made very bad and costly decisions that will negatively effect them for a long time.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I disagree.

The major problems we have in government is because people vote for who will return the goods to them. For those who will redistribute other people's money.

This needs to stop. At some point, you run out of "other people's money."
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That point isn't coming anytime soon.
 
"Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL: All US citizens have the RIGHT to vote."

Lord of Planar said:
True. I think it should be changed. Only productive citizens should vote, rather than those who vote politicians promising "leech" bills.
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Corporate bigwigs contributing to Republican candidates in the hope that those candidates will give those bigwigs tax breaks are leeches, and thus, by this guy's definition, should not have the right to vote.

Discuss.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
What is crap exactly?
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Crap and bull**** are pretty much the same thing.

Anyone who dreams that voting in the USA will ever be restricted to property owners is full of both of them, Not going to happen. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.

This sounds like an idea that a lot of GOPers would support.
 
Comunitee.com said:
"Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL: All US citizens have the RIGHT to vote."



Corporate bigwigs contributing to Republican candidates in the hope that those candidates will give those bigwigs tax breaks are leeches, and thus, by this guy's definition, should not have the right to vote.

Discuss.
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Demonrats get more corporate money... Election funds, are a different story.

The tax system itself is a different thread. This one is in my view, shortsighted in asking if we should limit the federal vote to land owners. I didn't vote on the simple YES or NO, and already I explained why.

Look at the politicians poor people general vote for. Those promising to take more money away from the rich, and give to them. Those promising for a larger bureaucracy. Look at who the rich are inclined to vote for. Those promising to reduce their redistribution of wealth to the leeches. Look at who the self proclaimed Tea party types vote for. those advocating a smaller government and less redistribution of wealth.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Actually, we ran out of money long ago. We just haven't run out of our grandchildren's money yet.
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You're wrong. We have NOT run out of money. The money is available. All we have to do is invade the Cayman Islands and take over their banks.

Or have an IRS with some teeth, that takes on the true tax cheats, instead of going after people like Wesley Snipes.
 
a failed op that got completely destroyed, nothign new to see here.
THis question was so stupid nobody even felt like spamming the "private" poll

SO does anybody have any logical reason why we should ever do this in 2013? one hasnt been presented yet.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Demonrats get more corporate money... Election funds, are a different story.

The tax system itself is a different thread. This one is in my view, shortsighted in asking if we should limit the federal vote to land owners. I didn't vote on the simple YES or NO, and already I explained why.

Look at the politicians poor people general vote for. Those promising to take more money away from the rich, and give to them. Those promising for a larger bureaucracy. Look at who the rich are inclined to vote for. Those promising to reduce their redistribution of wealth to the leeches. Look at who the self proclaimed Tea party types vote for. those advocating a smaller government and less redistribution of wealth.
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The rich have been the leeches since 1980. And you people didn't seem to mind "big government" when it was Tricky Dick, Ronnie, Poppy and Dubya running it.

I also notice that the truly psychotic on the right are no longer calling themselves "conservatives" as in the heyday of Limbaugh and Gingrich. They now call themselves "libertarians."

Well, to paraphrase George Carlin -- who was a hell of a lot closer to being a true libertarian than you are -- If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do libertarians eat? Liberties.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
When George Washington was elected only 6% of the population could vote because you had to be a white male property owner over the age of 21. It wasn't until 1856 that the vote was expanded to include all white men. In 1868 black men got the vote and finally in 1920 women got the right to vote . It wasn't until 1972 that the voting age was lowered to 18 and the steady dumbing down of the voter pool was complete. Before people start screaming racist and misogynist that is not my point here. I'm fine with all races and women voting but we never should have dropped the property owner requirement and never should have lowered the voting age to 18. When you have reached a point in your life where you own property you have demonstrated the ability to participate in this society in a contributing way but the main thing is you have skin in the game. At this point you want America to be a stable functioning country that is prosperous and has an effective economy where your hard work will be rewarded and safe guarded. Kids and non property owners are going to vote on and for different issues than they will or would when they are a participating member of our economy and should not be allowed to vote until they do more than hang around the fringes. The extreme example of this is people on welfare voting and kids in school who have never had a job in their lives. These people have nothing to lose and everything to gain by voting against a thriving economy and for give away programs to benefit them and will vote in their own self interest instead of considering what is best for the country at large. IMO we should reinstate the original voting requirement of being a property owner.
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How anachronistic. If we're going to be a plutocratic democracy we should at least remember that a huge class of upper middle class and upper class individuals do not own sizable property anymore and sometimes none at all.
 
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