View Poll Results: Should owning property be a requirement to vote

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  • yes, only property owners should vote

    10 10.00%
  • no, let everyone vote

    90 90.00%
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Thread: Only property owners should vote

  1. #441
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    No, but they pay less taxes than others, so perhaps we should strip them of their right to vote too. Oh, let's just take ALL of their rights.

    You know, I know some poor people that have MUCH more character, personality and morals and values than any wealthy person. I guess people like Paris Hilton, Miley Cyrus etc. get a pass. What makes people think that because a person is having a hard time in life means they somehow deserve to lose any of their rights is beyond my understanding.
    I sincerely doubt that. It is very easy to understand and you do not strike me as a dimwit by any means.

    There are boat rescue operations that are available to save people's boats (and livelihoods and even their lives) but before they will help, they need captains to fully (temporarily) relinquish all control and authority over their vessels. It's a hard thing for captains to do, but sometimes they end up in situations where they must admit "I can't do this on my own, I'm going down, someone help me." And the rescue operators know their ****, and experience has shown them that they save many more boats without captains in their way than they do when they allow the captains to be there through it all meddling in the rescue decisions. Of course, these captains have the full right to refuse help and try to save the ship on their own, or they can relinquish their control and rights over their ships for the purpose of external help swooping in to save the day.

    It is a very rational and humane way to operate. It's not ideal, but neither is drowning or losing your ship and your livelihood.

    Your protests toward these ideas reveal that some people want to protect our current system that lets the dependent have their cake and eat it too.

  2. #442
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    I can't answer this because I don't agree with either.

    There is something wrong with this system and I can't quite put my finger on it.

    I don't want to see voting rights stripped away from people but I see us heading down a wrong path.
    It seems silly that people who don't pay taxes (or have a negative tax) get to keep voting to raise the taxes on the people that do.

    It seems utterly irresponsible that we can accumulate more debt than we could pay off during our lifetimes, and dump that off on our descendants.

  3. #443
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    This idea would disenfranchise the vast majority of our military. They absolutely do not own their own land for a reason. They can get shipped overseas or to another state within a couple of years and generally every 4-5 years, depending on their branch of service.

    This is a horrid idea. And it absolutely fails on a lot of assumptions it makes.

    Property owners are not more responsible than non-property owners (which really should say "land-owners" since most people own some property, which is anything). Many people inherit at least some of their land. And renting can show a lot of responsibility to not do something they cannot afford, such as purchasing a home prior to being in a position to actually be able to afford it. You would disenfranchise many young people, particularly in their 20s (which I would bet is one of the goals of such a ridiculous suggestion).

    If anything should be a requirement for voting or full citizenship it should be a certain amount of time of civil service/duty, such as teaching, military service, federal service, police work, being a firefighter, or some other public good job.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  4. #444
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    I can't answer this because I don't agree with either.

    There is something wrong with this system and I can't quite put my finger on it.

    I don't want to see voting rights stripped away from people but I see us heading down a wrong path.
    It seems silly that people who don't pay taxes (or have a negative tax) get to keep voting to raise the taxes on the people that do.

    It seems utterly irresponsible that we can accumulate more debt than we could pay off during our lifetimes, and dump that off on our descendants.
    I've suggested that schools start teaching classes about finances, saving and budgeting. People jumped all over me to say that's the responsibility of the parents. Well, apparently parents aren't doing a good job of that or they were never taught themselves. Nobody wants to give anyone a break, but they want to punish them at the same time.

  5. #445
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    I feel that the lower end of humanity does hamper our ability as a whole but I cannot see any just way to deal with this problem at this time. I personally would be a supporter of a voluntary global eugenics program and I am surprised the world hasn't put one into motion. Perhaps because it is such a long term en devour with out an immediate benefit to humanity?

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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I've suggested that schools start teaching classes about finances, saving and budgeting. People jumped all over me to say that's the responsibility of the parents. Well, apparently parents aren't doing a good job of that or they were never taught themselves. Nobody wants to give anyone a break, but they want to punish them at the same time.
    That was what I was thanking, fyi

  7. #447
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    I feel that the lower end of humanity does hamper our ability as a whole but I cannot see any just way to deal with this problem at this time.
    There's nothing unjust about assistance for otherwise autonomous adults coming to an end. And I don't think of people who are dependent on social programs as "the lower end of humanity." It's just that the existence of these programs elicits parasitic behavior from people who are simply choosing the paths of least resistance and acting in what they feel is in their own best interests.

    I personally would be a supporter of a voluntary global eugenics program and I am surprised the world hasn't put one into motion. Perhaps because it is such a long term en devour with out an immediate benefit to humanity?
    I think eugenics is intended to breed arbitrarily desired characteristics in humans they way we do with domestic pets, plants, etc. It's pretty much a failed idea. But if you mean a voluntary depopulation strategy, there are political and Keynesian economic reasons not to do this. In other words, the world's leaders have embraced methods they think will enable indefinite growth and prosperity and do not acknowledge any need for or benefit to conservatism, prudence, conservation, or sustainability.

  8. #448
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    If the government cannot suspend or terminate any of our rights for any reason, then there is no government. Government can suspend or terminate virtually any right via due process. Liberty is suspended via incarceration and regulations. Property is suspended by legal penalties and judicial processes. Life is terminated via the death penalty.

    Discounting the weight of a person's vote based on the extent to which they independently manage their own adult affairs is not arbitrary at all. It is much less arbitrary than having zero voting power at age 17 to suddenly having 100% of one vote at age 18.
    Actually it is because it is impossible to truly measure how responsible a person is truly being. Responsibility is a concept, not a measurable thing. And everyone is irresponsible at one time or another within their adult life. And what is responsible or not is in fact arbitrary. Some would say that earning money is responsible, while others would say that being a good citizen and helping others is being responsible. Irresponsibility is easier to determine than responsibility, but even irresponsibility is not able to be truly measured. Is someone being irresponsible because they hit a lot of bad luck that they did everything within their power to try to predict but still came up short?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  9. #449
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    There's nothing unjust about assistance for otherwise autonomous adults coming to an end. And I don't think of people who are dependent on social programs as "the lower end of humanity." It's just that the existence of these programs elicits parasitic behavior from people who are simply choosing the paths of least resistance and acting in what they feel is in their own best interests.



    I think eugenics is intended to breed arbitrarily desired characteristics in humans they way we do with domestic pets, plants, etc. It's pretty much a failed idea. But if you mean a voluntary depopulation strategy, there are political and Keynesian economic reasons not to do this. In other words, the world's leaders have embraced methods they think will enable indefinite growth and prosperity and do not acknowledge any need for or benefit to conservatism, prudence, conservation, or sustainability.
    Most people aren't choosing to live on welfare. There are ALWAYS going to be poor people. There always have been and always will be. It is wrong to punish people for being poor. After my examples of some really idiotic super rich people, you should see the error of your assumptions.

  10. #450
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    There's nothing unjust about assistance for otherwise autonomous adults coming to an end. And I don't think of people who are dependent on social programs as "the lower end of humanity." It's just that the existence of these programs elicits parasitic behavior from people who are simply choosing the paths of least resistance and acting in what they feel is in their own best interests.



    I think eugenics is intended to breed arbitrarily desired characteristics in humans they way we do with domestic pets, plants, etc. It's pretty much a failed idea. But if you mean a voluntary depopulation strategy, there are political and Keynesian economic reasons not to do this. In other words, the world's leaders have embraced methods they think will enable indefinite growth and prosperity and do not acknowledge any need for or benefit to conservatism, prudence, conservation, or sustainability.
    I admit I am very ignorant about human eugenic efforts. However the only real eugenic programs that I am aware of were small short term programs that I personally would only consider token efforts. I would appreciate any further information that would support your statement.

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