View Poll Results: Should owning property be a requirement to vote

Voters
100. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes, only property owners should vote

    10 10.00%
  • no, let everyone vote

    90 90.00%
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Thread: Only property owners should vote

  1. #291
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Your definition of control leaves much to be desired. When you are using a definition that is outside of the English language, I can't have a discussion with you.


    1. To exercise authoritative influence over
    2. Authority or ability to manage or direct

  2. #292
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So if I get no government assistance, then I am a NET TAXPAYER?

    Why is Social Security being included into the formula since I have already paid for that?
    If you get no government assistance, you meet your own needs independently, like most real adults do, which in my view justifies a full vote, like real adult citizens should get. Children get no vote because they're fully dependents of others. Adults on public assistance are usually somewhere in the gray area, so their votes should be weighted.

    You don't "pay for" social security checks. An involuntary tax is not a purchase.

  3. #293
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    That is what is wrong with country, everyone wants a free ride without any skin in the game
    The average American citizen, even if they don't pay a net loss to income tax, still pays social security tax, sales tax, excise taxes, sin taxes, gasoline taxes, taxes on telecommunications, and all sorts of other ones. Unwieldly? Yeah. Of course. But the notion that anyone who isn't paying income tax, or doesn't own property, is getting a "free ride" is moronic to the Nth degree.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  4. #294
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Everyone has the right to vote (with the REASONABLE restrictions we have in place now), and that isn't going to change. It's a right, just like the 2nd amendment or any other of your "favorite" rights.
    Maybe property owners should be the only people to have the right to free speech? Or the right to own guns? I wonder how that would fly with our elitist, classist OP? After all, why benefit from the rights granted in the Bill of Rights if you don't have "skin in the game"?
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  5. #295
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Maybe property owners should be the only people to have the right to free speech? Or the right to own guns? I wonder how that would fly with our elitist, classist OP? After all, why benefit from the rights granted in the Bill of Rights if you don't have "skin in the game"?


    Ladies and Gentlemen, the Public Education System of the United States of America.

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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post


    Ladies and Gentlemen, the Public Education System of the United States of America.
    Brilliant non-seq, but as far as I learned in my "public education," the right of American citizens to vote cannot be abridged under abitrary circumstances. Since the OP is clearly advocating that, apparently the Constitution is fair game. So why not expand that to other rights?

    Illegal search and seizure? Legal, if you don't own property.
    Quartering soldiers? Legal, if you don't own property.
    Cruel and unusual punishment, excessive bail, or excessive fines? Legal, if you don't own property.

    Face it, the only reason anyone is defending the OP is because the blacks and poors don't vote for Republicans. Gee, I wonder why.

    EDIT: I see we're up to THREE WHOLE VOTES in favor of the OP's proposition, yet I see more than that arguing that it's not a bad idea. Not a public poll, guys. You can be racist, classist assholes without us knowing who you are.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  7. #297
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    When George Washington was elected only 6% of the population could vote because you had to be a white male property owner over the age of 21. It wasn't until 1856 that the vote was expanded to include all white men. In 1868 black men got the vote and finally in 1920 women got the right to vote . It wasn't until 1972 that the voting age was lowered to 18 and the steady dumbing down of the voter pool was complete. Before people start screaming racist and misogynist that is not my point here. I'm fine with all races and women voting but we never should have dropped the property owner requirement and never should have lowered the voting age to 18. When you have reached a point in your life where you own property you have demonstrated the ability to participate in this society in a contributing way but the main thing is you have skin in the game. At this point you want America to be a stable functioning country that is prosperous and has an effective economy where your hard work will be rewarded and safe guarded. Kids and non property owners are going to vote on and for different issues than they will or would when they are a participating member of our economy and should not be allowed to vote until they do more than hang around the fringes. The extreme example of this is people on welfare voting and kids in school who have never had a job in their lives. These people have nothing to lose and everything to gain by voting against a thriving economy and for give away programs to benefit them and will vote in their own self interest instead of considering what is best for the country at large. IMO we should reinstate the original voting requirement of being a property owner.
    So basically, unless you're relatively wealthy, you don't think someone has anything to offer society.

    I'm a gainfully employed renter. And in fact, no matter how much money I had, I don't think I'd ever want to buy a house. I'm a city girl, and I like it that way. That means I will probably never own property. How does this mean I'm not intellectually capable of voting?

    But even if it were purely an issue of money, how does that make someone unqualified to vote? The wealthy are the ones who set the tone of society for the poor. So why, precisely, should the poor be excluded from the discussion?

    The fact that you associate allowing the poor to vote with "dumbing" things down speaks volumes about you.

    And why do you believe simply owning a piece of the dirt will make someone interested in America's "success?" If anything, doesn't it make them more interested in themselves, at the expense of others if need be?

    That is the logical counterpoint to your illogical statement of human nature, but it's not true, of course. The truth is that money doesn't make people what they are. Plenty of poor people, or simply people who don't own a piece of dirt, are interested in America's well-being. Plenty of people who are wealthy and own dirt aren't interested in the well-being of anyone but themselves.

    If you want to raise the voting age, fine. But you should also raise the age at which you expect people to go die for their country along with it.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 09-26-13 at 04:41 AM.

  8. #298
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    many illegals do not pay any taxes, welfare- no taxes
    That is an astounding thing to claim. How can anyone live in our society without paying some tax when most simple purchases are subject to sales taxes?
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    If you get no government assistance, you meet your own needs independently, like most real adults do, which in my view justifies a full vote, like real adult citizens should get. Children get no vote because they're fully dependents of others. Adults on public assistance are usually somewhere in the gray area, so their votes should be weighted.

    You don't "pay for" social security checks. An involuntary tax is not a purchase.
    If I pay for it - like I do social security - it matters not if it is voluntary or not. And in a sense it is voluntary because I have the power and right to withdraw from the American system at any time of my chosing but I stay just the same knowing the rules of the game and I keep playing of my own free will.

    I ask again - if I am NOT on public assistance and work for a living, am I in this group of a NET TAXPAYER?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    How do we determine the difference between a "tax consumer" and a "net taxpayer"?

    Is it solely money-in vs money-out?

    How about services used? Even unseen services. A person engaging in international business may benefit from government programs and services that make their international endeavors possible, and without which would be virtually impossible.
    The people who spout this crap are NEVER able to define such a difference with any actual formula that can be applied to each person to make that determination. It is simply right wing rhetoric based on a desire to disenfranchise the people who do not vote the way they want them to.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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