• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Only property owners should vote

Should owning property be a requirement to vote

  • yes, only property owners should vote

    Votes: 6 7.3%
  • no, let everyone vote

    Votes: 76 92.7%

  • Total voters
    82
Status
Not open for further replies.
I knew you would be impotent to answer my questions about how you arrived at your magical FIVE TIMES number. thank you for confirming it.

Let me educate you on this

five times clearly is in the net tax payer category. it was a safe number

do you admit or deny that some people pay for more than they use and others use more than what they pay

its an easy question

yes or no
 
Let me educate you on this

five times clearly is in the net tax payer category. it was a safe number

do you admit or deny that some people pay for more than they use and others use more than what they pay

its an easy question

yes or no

Did that number come from your brain or from three feet lower? Can you prove it with verifiable evidence?

What is the average tax paid per individual that we need to multiply times five?

Why times five?

Why not times two?

Why not times three?

Why times any number?

How does one calculate the amount of government services absorbed on the other side of the calculation?

You have never been able to identify the numbers are you are still impotent to identify them.

All you want to do is disenfranchise people who do not vote like you do .... pure and simple.
 
Last edited:
Did that number come from your brain or from three feet lower? Can you prove it with verifiable evidence?

I asked you a question, can you answer it?
 
I asked you a question, can you answer it?

Yes. Gladly. Most certainly I and anyone else an answer it. As soon as you answer the ones I asked first. Provide me the formula and I will be glad to apply it so that I can answer your question about using more services than you pay for.

But for over two years now you have been woefully impotent to do that. Why would this discussion be any different?

All you want to do is disenfranchise people who do not vote like you want them to vote. So - like your various contradictory positions on taxes - you embrace anything that benefits your own selfish goals and wants.
 
Yes. They do. My husband and I haven't paid income taxes a good portion of our marriage just due to our relative military service during that time and us having children during every taxable year we have been married. But we still care about what is done. We simply do not lie on our income taxes when we fill them out to pay more than we owe. We care about the real world despite not paying net taxes. It isn't that hard to understand.

Heck the vast majority of those who don't pay "net income taxes" really don't even realize that they don't because they simply don't look at the difference between what they paid in and what they got back, positive or negative. They don't think to themselves, "I don't pay taxes so why should I care". It is absolutely stupid and/or ignorant to believe they do.

do people vote for politicians, who promise them they will get the rich, make them pay their fair share.

i believe what Madison says if true, those who have no stake, will use their vote for injustice, maybe not everyone, but it is natural for man to look at another man and be envious.

The right of suffrage is a fundamental Article in Republican Constitutions. The regulation of it is, at the same time, a task of peculiar delicacy. Allow the right exclusively to property, and the rights of persons may be oppressed. The feudal polity alone sufficiently proves it. Extend it equally to all, and the rights of property or the claims of justice may be overruled by a majority without property, or interested in measures of injustice. Of this abundant proof is afforded by other popular Govts. and is not without examples in our own, particularly in the laws impairing the obligation of contracts.
 
As soon as you answer the ones I asked first.

NOpe NOt going to work that way, I already answered one of yours

its simple

do you believe some people pay more in taxes then they get in government benefits

and do others do the reverse
 
NOpe NOt going to work that way, I already answered one of yours

its simple

do you believe some people pay more in taxes then they get in government benefits

and do others do the reverse

It has to work that way since it cannot work any other way. You give me the formula and I will apply it to you and me and every other American to determine the answer to your question. But without a formula to apply its merely pulling crap out of ones rectum ...... and that is not a reliable answer for anyone.

You want to put a label on people so you can deprive them of their Constitutional rights. Okay. So lets see the formula you are going to use to do this.

Why are you impotent to do this?
 
It has to work that way since it cannot work any other way. You give me the formula and I will apply it to you and me and every other American to determine the answer to your question. But without a formula to apply its merely pulling crap out of ones rectum ...... and that is not a reliable answer for anyone.

You want to put a label on people so you can deprive them of their Constitutional rights. Okay. So lets see the formula you are going to use to do this.

Why are you impotent to do this?

you seem to think that not being able to name the exact point doesn't mean there aren't both kinds of groups

the fact is-democrats pander to net tax consumers and advocate tax policies that garner the votes of such people while the GOP policies favor net tax payers
 
yup... income taxes are taxes. So are many other taxes also that people pay every day.

Income taxes was the conversation, but deflection is just part of you I guess
 
Income taxes was the conversation, but deflection is just part of you I guess

Why are you only using one tax and ignoring all the others people pay?
 
Income taxes was the conversation, but deflection is just part of you I guess

income taxes are the ones that take up most of the conversation when it comes to politics because its the one politicians use to buy votes since they can promise the many all sorts of goodies paid for by jacking up the rates on the few. sales taxes don't have that Us vs Them or Producers vs Looters dichotomies
 
you seem to think that not being able to name the exact point doesn't mean there aren't both kinds of groups

the fact is-democrats pander to net tax consumers and advocate tax policies that garner the votes of such people while the GOP policies favor net tax payers

Lets leave the hypothetical BS behind shall we. Here is a real case. tell me if they are net taxpayers or not?

Let us take the case of a couple - the Smith family - who have an income of $120K per year. This is far more than average and places them in the supposed desired class of the net taxpayer according to the logic of Turtle as they pay far more than the average. However, any such determination that does not examine the actual government services used by the Smith family is extremely incomplete and flawed.

Let us say that the Smith's over all tax payments are in the range of 30%. This means they have paid about $37K in taxes to all levels of government in a year. Now let us say that the Smith's have four children ranging in ages from seven to sixteen years of age and are in the local public school. If they live in a state like New Jersey, where Governor Christie says it costs over $20K per year for one students education if they are in the Newark pubic school system, that is a cost of over $80K for the children of the Smith family. Now please keep in mind that I cannot find any source which says Christie is right. Sources I can locate say the expenditure is closer to $17K per pupil in his state. But let us assume that the governor of that state knows more than the rest of us and we will use his figure. IOf we use the lower figure it is still $68K for the Smith's education. And if they live in a lower cost state like where the per pupil cost is only half of that, the cost of education for the Smith children is still over $40K per year. Not even taking into account any other single government service, they already are tax vampires sucking up far more than they contribute. Despite their above average income and the taxes they pay on it and for other things, they are nowhere near being a net taxpayer.

And this illustrates the absolute folly and impossibility of identifying who and who is not a net taxpayer. If you cannot accurately define it and identify the rubric being used, the methodology being used and the information necessary to make the judgment, how can you then apply this to anyone with any degree of accuracy at all? Obviously you cannot.

The Smith family would be different than a childless couple and both couples would be different than a couple with six children in school. Everyones situation is individual and different and that is a key point.
Now take all aspects of taxation and all aspects of government service and every American and come up with your determination of who is and who is not a net taxpayer and who is a tax vampire. it simply cannot be done with any accuracy or specificity.

And the real nightmare here is the political power grab behind this bogus idea has been floated in right wing circles and on this board that people who are not net taxpayers should be disenfranchised and stripped of their citizens right to vote in public elections. That is staggering and one of the most anti-democratic and anti-American ideas I have ever heard. And when you see that is is based on a fiction that cannot be identified or quantified, its even more of an outrage and abomination.

If I am wrong, if you are wrong, and there is a precise definition of the net taxpayer I would certainly like to see it, all the information which goes into it, the methodology used to make that judgment, the formula for applications, and other specifics which are important to have to understand the concept. I await such information.
 
Why are you only using one tax and ignoring all the others people pay?

because the others are elective, income taxes are a requirement
 
tl dr (again)

you miss the entire point

your side wants to pander to net tax consumers

my side supports people like me-the ones who supply the milk to the public teat
 
because the others are elective, income taxes are a requirement

Other taxes are not required? Sales tax is not required to pay? Property tax is not required to pay?

Your statement makes no logical sense in the real world.
 
only from the far right wing fringe who want to ignore all other taxes.

so its far right wing fringe to note that income taxes are the political football (along with the surcharge on the rich-the death tax)

who is arguing about say excise taxes or real estate taxes
 
Other taxes are not required?

sales tax? there is none if you don't buy anything
gasoline tax? ride a bike

The conversation was income tax, try to keep up
 
tl dr (again)

you miss the entire point

your side wants to pander to net tax consumers

my side supports people like me-the ones who supply the milk to the public teat

I could not give two craps about your side. Screw the so called sides. I want YOU - TURTLE DUDE - YOU - to back up your own posts with a formula that can be applied and screw all the rest of the crap that you want to use to hide the reality that you are impotent to present it .
 
sales tax? there is none if you don't buy anything
gasoline tax? ride a bike

The conversation was income tax, try to keep up

those taxes don't work for class warfare because if you hike the sales tax everyone pays the higher rate

not good for buying the votes of the parasites by sticking it to the producers
 
sales tax? there is none if you don't buy anything
gasoline tax? ride a bike

The conversation was income tax, try to keep up

and there is no income tax to pay if one has no income. So there is no difference.

Right wing fringe wacko's want to restrict the discussion to the income tax - but that is not going to happen.
 
I could not give two craps about your side. Screw the so called sides. I want YOU - TURTLE DUDE - YOU - to back up your own posts with a formula that can be applied and screw all the rest of the crap that you want to use to hide the reality that you are impotent to present it .

easy

if you pay more than what you get you are a net tax payer

and that amount is best set at what is the average amount of income tax one pays

that will get you close
 
and there is no income tax to pay if one has no income. So there is no difference.

Right wing fringe wacko's want to restrict the discussion to the income tax - but that is not going to happen.


I like how you throw around the term "right wing fringe whacko


the founders must be that too since they didn't want income taxes

and what is the opposite of a right wing whacko?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom