View Poll Results: Should owning property be a requirement to vote

Voters
100. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes, only property owners should vote

    10 10.00%
  • no, let everyone vote

    90 90.00%
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Thread: Only property owners should vote

  1. #201
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    I don't really have one besides promoting the message and helping it spread. But I do believe that your solution would only make things worse.
    Actually, it's the only one that would make people think about their behavior and subsequent consequences. It's not like I'm suggesting people would lose the privilege forever, but it would be suspended while they were receiving entitlement payments...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  2. #202
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    Actually, it's the only one that would make people think about their behavior and subsequent consequences. It's not like I'm suggesting people would lose the privilege forever, but it would be suspended while they were receiving entitlement payments...
    I think there are two main problems with it. For one throughout history almost every group lacking political power has ended up exploited. It would end up in a cycle anyway. Benefits would shrink enough it would no longer be worth it to lose the right to vote. They'd regain the right to vote, reinstate the benefits and end likely end the requirement to vote.

    For another, I don't think it's right to take away rights or privileges over political beliefs or belonging to a group likely to have certain beliefs.
    There should be Instant Runoff Voting

  3. #203
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    I think there are two main problems with it. For one throughout history almost every group lacking political power has ended up exploited. It would end up in a cycle anyway. Benefits would shrink enough it would no longer be worth it to lose the right to vote. They'd regain the right to vote, reinstate the benefits and end likely end the requirement to vote.

    For another, I don't think it's right to take away rights or privileges over political beliefs or belonging to a group likely to have certain beliefs.
    It's not about beliefs; it's about behavior and wanting to earn the privilege of voting in federal elections...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  4. #204
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    My position has evolved, I should start a new thread.

    post # 140
    What you really want to say is that people who are likely to vote Democratic should not be allowed to vote. Say what you mean in your poll.
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  5. #205
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    Actually, it's the only one that would make people think about their behavior and subsequent consequences. It's not like I'm suggesting people would lose the privilege forever, but it would be suspended while they were receiving entitlement payments...
    So that would be anybody on Social Security or on a military pension. Unless you don't really mean entitlement programs. Sometimes it's hard to tell exactly what you mean with you guys.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

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  6. #206
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    So, in your simplistic view, my four year old granddaughter should have a say in how government affects her life?
    Your 4 year old has not yet reached the age of majority. She has limited rights and obligations until she is 18.


    The Constitution left it up to the States to determine the qualifications to vote....
    That doesn't mean that "there is no right to vote." It means the US Constitution does not properly recognize the right to vote.


    It has since been modified to deny States the ability to disenfranchise individuals based on certain characteristics.
    That has no effect on the general principle that all citizens have a right to vote. E.g. you have the right to travel freely, but if you're convicted of a crime then you temporarily lose that right.


    Now that tax dollars forcibly sent to the federal government by individuals and subsequently sent to other individuals to meet basic needs, there should be a discussion on this subject.
    Elected officials routinely decide on how tax dollars are allocated.

    You should also keep in mind that when laws about tax exemptions were passed, no one included the idea that "if you do not pay X in taxes, you will be disenfranchised."


    IMV, any individual who has received an entitlement payment (excluding SS and Medicare) within 180 days of a federal election should be disenfranchised from voting as they would likely vote for a candidate that supported continuation of those payments...
    Why exclude Social Security and Medicare?

    Oh wait, I know: You just want to screw the poor. I'm sure that once they are disenfranchised, there won't be any negative consequences for having entire swaths of the country unable to vote. It'll be just like. oh... being black in Alabama in the 1930s.

  7. #207
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    So that would be anybody on Social Security or on a military pension. Unless you don't really mean entitlement programs. Sometimes it's hard to tell exactly what you mean with you guys.
    You would need to read my initial post. SS and Medicare are forced insurance programs, not entitlement, neither are military retirement benefits an "entitlement"...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  8. #208
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    When George Washington was elected only 6% of the population could vote because you had to be a white male property owner over the age of 21. It wasn't until 1856 that the vote was expanded to include all white men. In 1868 black men got the vote and finally in 1920 women got the right to vote . It wasn't until 1972 that the voting age was lowered to 18 and the steady dumbing down of the voter pool was complete. Before people start screaming racist and misogynist that is not my point here. I'm fine with all races and women voting but we never should have dropped the property owner requirement and never should have lowered the voting age to 18. When you have reached a point in your life where you own property you have demonstrated the ability to participate in this society in a contributing way but the main thing is you have skin in the game. At this point you want America to be a stable functioning country that is prosperous and has an effective economy where your hard work will be rewarded and safe guarded. Kids and non property owners are going to vote on and for different issues than they will or would when they are a participating member of our economy and should not be allowed to vote until they do more than hang around the fringes. The extreme example of this is people on welfare voting and kids in school who have never had a job in their lives. These people have nothing to lose and everything to gain by voting against a thriving economy and for give away programs to benefit them and will vote in their own self interest instead of considering what is best for the country at large. IMO we should reinstate the original voting requirement of being a property owner.
    So instead of having the young and the poor voting for welfare for themselves you'll have property owners voting for welfare for themselves?

    No thanks.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  9. #209
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    It's not about beliefs; it's about behavior and wanting to earn the privilege of voting in federal elections...
    It's about the way they are likely to vote. They vote roughly the same way concerned with their interests as other groups. As far as I'm concerned they've earned it as much as anyone. I'd like to limit it to only those who put the nations best interests over their own, but there's no practical way to do that.
    There should be Instant Runoff Voting

  10. #210
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    Re: Only property owners should vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    No, it's about rights being commensurate with responsibilities.
    Sawyer has made numerous statements to the effect that "people who not do X will vote for policy Y." His intention is very clear.

    In addition, rights are not contingent upon paying taxes. If I have no income for 2 years, I do not lose the right to freedom of speech.


    Imagine three children trying to democratically vote themselves allowances of 60% of the parents' income. One person, one vote, 20% of the family income. Sound fair?
    No, that sounds like a straw man.

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