View Poll Results: Who is the best Pope ever?

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  • Francis is the Best

    15 34.88%
  • Benedict XVI is the Best

    1 2.33%
  • John Paul II is the Best

    8 18.60%
  • Other (Post your answer)

    19 44.19%
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Thread: Best Pope Ever?

  1. #51
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    That's really the problem, if you believe that these teachings were perfect and handed down by an omnipotent and omniscient deity, then they can't change. To change suggests that either the Church was wrong all these years, or that God changed his mind, both of which are very bad for the Church. The fact that he wants to change things presents some serious theological problems for Catholics.
    Can no one read? Nowhere did he say that he was changing these doctrines. He said that he would focus less on these things.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #52
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    He's not trying to change doctrine, he's trying to change the church's approach to certain doctrines. That's just as important, if not more important.

    He preaches love, justice, compassion... You know, what Jesus taught... and he is saying that the approach that the Chruch takes on these issues should not be devoid of those three things (which is the biggest problem the Chruch has had on the issues).


    He's not trying to say Abortion is good or that homosexuality is not a sin, he's saying that only God can judge the people who do these things, and that doing those things is not, in and of themselves, things which will exclude someone from heaven.

    Newsflash: that is the Church's doctrine. Jesus taught that stuff. The Church has always said that God is a forgiving God who loves people. If anything, Pope Francis is just reaffirming those doctrines.
    Jesus' first word in the Gospel of Mark is repent, so it's not as if Jesus embraces everything. I'm not saying that you're putting forward that proposition, but many seem to fall for that idea.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #53
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    As a non Catholic, I applaud a Christian religious leader who preaches the same philosophy that Christ preached so many years ago. I think the new Pope is a force for good in the world.

    Just my opinion, from the outside looking in.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  4. #54
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    And they shouldn't have changed at all, ever. To change on doctrinal issues, they have to admit they were wrong. I wouldn't be trusting a religious organization that thinks their beliefs are handed down by God that's shown to be wrong repeatedly.
    I think that would have been incredibly counter-productive to not change at all, doctrine or emphasis. I know I approach this from a different lens, but even if they have changed their views or emphasis on those views, as any prudent organization should consider doing from time to time, it still provides moral order to the world, your atheism notwithstanding.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  5. #55
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    As a non Catholic, I applaud a Christian religious leader who preaches the same philosophy that Christ preached so many years ago. I think the new Pope is a force for good in the world.

    Just my opinion, from the outside looking in.
    As a non-Catholic, can you tell me what exactly the philosophy of Christ is? Because you seem to think he permits everything.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #56
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Right. What's the purpose of religion if it changes according to which direction the wind blows?

    He's essentially saying that his religion/belief system is a sham and that he willfully participated in said sham for decades.

    If a particular religious belief is deemed to be the absolute truth, then it shouldn't change. Especially for current trends and popular opinion.
    Christianity, those break-off Jewish sects, would have been dead in the water had it not changed. You wouldn't have had it established in the Roman empire, you wouldn't have had it spread to Anglo-Saxon territories, and so forth. It would just be dead. Dead. If you don't change it, you have a theological victory. Congratulations. However, it would be a hollow victory, because no one would give a damn.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  7. #57
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Christianity, those break-off Jewish sects, would have been dead in the water had it not changed. You wouldn't have had it established in the Roman empire, you wouldn't have had it spread to Anglo-Saxon territories, and so forth. It would just be dead. Dead. If you don't change it, you have a theological victory. Congratulations. However, it would be a hollow victory, because no one would give a damn.
    What has Christianity changed, if you mind me asking? Changing the Mass from Greek to Latin? Please, do explain.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  8. #58
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    The Obama of popes. By failing to rise to the task of providing rock solid, unwavering confirmation and celebration of Catholic traditions, values and core beliefs, Francis will soon become the pop culture, MSM favorite Pope. The pope of appeasement rather than core beliefs. At a time when Catholics worldwide need strong, unwavering leadership and direction, Francis is thus far failing badly. One can only pray that the impossible happens and Francis becomes a pope of worldwide statue to lead the Church as the church that is so desperately needed in today's world.
    Last edited by Ray410; 09-20-13 at 01:42 PM.

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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    What has Christianity changed, if you mind me asking? Changing the Mass from Greek to Latin? Please, do explain.
    For instance, within the incorporation of local traditions that did not mesh well with Church doctrine, Pope Gregory I responded by saying:

    "For in these days the Church corrects some things strictly, and allows others out of leniency; others again she deliberately glosses over and tolerates and by so doing often succeeds in checking an evil of which she disapproves. But all who comes to the Faith are to be warned against doing these things, and should any subsequently be guilty of them, they are to be forbidden to receive the Communion of the Blood of our Lord. For while these offenses may to some extent be condoned in those who acted in ignorance, they must be severely punished in those who presume to sin knowingly." Furthermore, he asked that they not destroy the Briton's heathenish temples, as was expected, but convert them instead.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  10. #60
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    The Obama of popes. By failing to rise to the task of providing rock solid, unwavering confirmation and celebration of Catholic traditions, values and core beliefs, Francis will soon become the pop culture, MSM favorite Pope. The pope of appeasement rather than core beliefs. At a time when Catholics worldwide need strong, unwavering leadership and direction, Francis is thus far failing badly. One can only pray that the impossible happens and Francis becomes a pope of worldwide statue to lead the Church as the church.
    At very best he is giving the media fodder to portray him as an extreme-liberal. I don't like it and I wish that he would quit with the impromptu remarks. They've caused nothing but confusion.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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