View Poll Results: Who is the best Pope ever?

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  • Francis is the Best

    15 34.88%
  • Benedict XVI is the Best

    1 2.33%
  • John Paul II is the Best

    8 18.60%
  • Other (Post your answer)

    19 44.19%
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Thread: Best Pope Ever?

  1. #101
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    I'm pretty sure Lutheran's have a different opinion about that than do Catholics.

    Also, he had 95 Theses against the Catholic Church, not just those two. Including the selling of Indulgences.
    Which was also condemned by the Church.

    He wasn't excommunicated for having a problem with the selling of indulgences.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #102
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    Side note: "Indulgences" were primarily for royals. A way for them to reconcile killing in battle or other sins committed during their divine charge as royalty.
    Um, no.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence

    In Catholic theology, an indulgence is a remission of temporal[1] punishment due to sin, the guilt of which has been forgiven.[2][3][4] An indulgence is thus not forgiveness of the guilt of sin nor release from the eternal punishment due to unforgiven mortal sins; nor is it a permit to commit sin, a pardon of future sin, nor a guarantee of salvation for oneself or for another.[2][5] Ordinarily, forgiveness of grave sins is to be obtained only through the sacrament of Confession (i.e., penance or reconciliation).

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #103
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    This is like giving the President the Nobel Peace Prize.
    We know how our good Repub friends have overreacted on the President.
    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Pope Francis has again pushed aside tradition and embraced a progressive outlook, repairing frayed bonds between the Church and gays, atheists, and those who use contraception and have had abortions.

    As leader of the Vatican, Pope Francis is not only a religious leader, but Head of State of the small Catholic nation, and can politically and diplomatically intervene in world affairs to promote peace and ethics.

    So, with only a few months of experience, how does this Pope rank amongst all others?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/20/wo...OSEikXs/MIljqw

  4. #104
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?


  5. #105
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Except that you forget that most of our crimes have a victim. Who is the victim in gay marriage? You?
    There are many crimes which don't have a 'victim' per se.

    Here is a partial list:

    Health ‘protection’ crimes: The government can get away with a lot of restrictions ‘for the good of the people’. This can be used to justify almost any law. \

    bullet
    Drug prohibition

    bullet
    Seat belt laws

    bullet
    Motorcycle helmet laws

    bullet
    Bans on bungee jumping (or similar activities)

    bullet
    Suicide and assisted suicide prohibition


    “Youth ‘protection’ laws: These laws exist with the pretense of protecting children, but their effect is to make young citizens property of their guardians. Some are also based on the idea that ignorance will protect youth from harm (when it usually has the opposite effect).

    bullet
    Curfews

    bullet
    Bans on factual sex education

    bullet
    Clothing restrictions in schools

    bullet
    Alcohol & Tobacco prohibition

    bullet
    Erotica prohibition

    bullet
    Inability to get credit cards or make legal contracts

    bullet
    Parental notification


    “Paranoid Anti-Crime laws: The government claims the constitution doesn’t give them enough power to fight crime, so they pass laws that directly violate the Bill of Rights.

    bullet
    Loitering laws

    bullet
    Confiscation of all possessions without trial (drug laws)

    bullet
    RICO laws

    bullet
    [Add the Patriot Act of 2001, following 9-11-2001!]


    “Sex prohibition: The government prohibits many forms of sexual expression. These laws usually have no logical reason to exist. They are based solely on religious morality and therefore violate the spirit of our Constitution.

    bullet
    Inter Net Censorship Laws

    bullet
    Sodomy laws (consensual oral & anal sex)

    bullet
    Obscenity laws

    bullet
    Nudity prohibition

    bullet
    Prostitution prohibition

    bullet
    Solicitation laws

    bullet
    Prosecution of consensual Sado-Masochism

    bullet
    Abortion restrictions (some religions believe there is a victim)

    bullet
    Bans on abortion counciling

    bullet
    Contraceptive restrictions


    “Do these belong? There are a number of laws which may or may not be victimless depending on perspective

    bullet
    Child Porn (prosecutions often happen in cases where no children are harmed)

    bullet
    Age of consent (forbids children to seek consensual sex with adults)

    bullet
    Abortion (depending on religious beliefs of whether or not a fetus/embryo is a citizen)

    bullet
    Gun restrictions (some of these prevent/reduce direct harm to citizens and thus have victims, but if citizens who have legitimate recreational [or protection from their government] uses of guns are refused ownership, there is no victim)

    bullet
    Paperwork violations (some of these are intended to preemptively prevent fraud or other crimes with victims, but often the paperwork is simply an unnecessary burden)

    bullet
    Driver licenses (is the driver's test necessary or sufficient to keep streets safe?)

    bullet
    Business/professional licenses

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    Trade/export restrictions

    bullet
    Minimum wage (what if a retired person wants to do a little work, but doesn't need a lot of money?)

    bullet
    Traffic regulations (have you ever gone over the speed limit?)
    Victimless Crimes
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

  6. #106
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    If you have ever been witness to a criminal trial, then you are aware that a person is never charged for committing a "sin". They are charged for violating a public law created by moral principles, which are designed to be as unbiased as possible to all those whom the law applies.

    Sin? Really? Sin according to who or what?
    You might want to take a second look about that statement. Many 'sins' are crimes. And you can lose your assets over them, be jailed for them, and in some states, even be put to death for committing one.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

  7. #107
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Sure you can quote wikipedia... I don't see how that refutes my statement. Yours is a definition, mine is an explanation. Maybe you don't understand the difference?

  8. #108
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I guess it depends on how you choose to define "enforce".

    I forget exactly where, but I recall the Bible saying that one should try to refrain from associating with known/unrepentant sinners (meaning those who refuse to even consider salvation). That's a form of enforcement.
    The Bible tells believers not to take other believers to court. It also says not to yoke yourself unequally with the unbeliever. But nowhere does the Bible say we should not have laws and courts. In fact God even supported humans having laws by giving Moses 10 of them to work with. In that day, and in many days forward into history they were enforced in the courts. Most of them still are.

    Homosexuality was once considered an illness by the APA. It is the only illness I know that was changed to not being an illness because people lobbied against it. Maybe schizophrenia will be next.
    Last edited by Maenad; 09-20-13 at 08:57 PM.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

  9. #109
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    He made clear that he did not approve of their sins.
    Correct, but he still associated with them, did he not?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  10. #110
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    Re: Best Pope Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    The best pope will be the one that sells all of the Vatican's treasures and uses its wealth to feed hungry people all across the world.
    The Catholic church does more to feed hungry people than any other religious organisation.

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