View Poll Results: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

Voters
51. You may not vote on this poll
  • You can have any gun you want and no one can stop you.

    17 33.33%
  • You can have any ARM you want. Why stop at guns? Knives, grenades, nunchucks, tanks...it's all good!

    10 19.61%
  • Yeah, you can have a gun, but there are limits to that right, like every other right.

    21 41.18%
  • You can have a gun so you can join in a militia instead of having a standing army.

    10 19.61%
  • You can have an 18th century single-shot firearm and no one can stop you.

    8 15.69%
  • You and your gun cannot be singled out by the government, it has to follow it's own laws

    8 15.69%
  • As a principle you should have the right to a gun, but we're not going to explain how.

    4 7.84%
  • It's purposefully vague.

    5 9.80%
  • Other

    10 19.61%
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Thread: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

  1. #61
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Well, Jefferson thought the constitution should be rewritten by each new generation. And to begin with, the founding fathers never had a hive mind. They were from different regions, with different constituents, and they compromised as much as any generation. I think automatically falling back on what they said at the beginning of the country without questioning its wisdom verges on religiousness.
    some comments are so clueless that I tend to view the utterer as beyond hope

    for example

    1) some claim that the second amendment's comment about "well regulated" DELEGATES POWER TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT to regulate ARMS (not militias)

    2) some claim that the second only applies to muskets, pikes etc

    those two comments exhibit such a complete lack of understanding of the constitution that I can never take anyone who says something like that seriously



  2. #62
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You poor thing. Have a cookie.



    No, you "maintain" it because you read a silly, unsourced op-ed by a judge who's not an historian.
    It was a most amusing meltdown.



  3. #63
    Mixed Government advocate
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Well, Jefferson thought the constitution should be rewritten by each new generation. And to begin with, the founding fathers never had a hive mind. They were from different regions, with different constituents, and they compromised as much as any generation. I think automatically falling back on what they said at the beginning of the country without questioning its wisdom verges on religiousness.
    well since the founders are reflecting on what is written in the constitution, and the limitations placed on government by the restrictive clauses of the bill of right cannot be changed.

    what they have to say about those limitations is still valid.

  4. #64
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The second amendment related to the militia, and the phrase "keep and bear arms" was a term of art referring to militia serve. Personal, individual gun ownership had NOTHING to do with the original meaning of the second amendment.
    DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA ET AL. v. HELLER


    Held:
    1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.
    .......

  5. #65
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    I think the responses of the poll suggest that what the 2nd Amendment really says is in dispute.
    Do you actually think this thread represents the first time this was discussed here at DP? (Or, indeed, within the first 100 times?)
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  6. #66
    Sometimes wrong

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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    But certainly if you want to talk about the intent of the founding fathers you must accept that they wrote the 2nd amendment in the context of the 18th century. They wouldn't have had any idea about how it would be applied in the future.
    That is simply silly. Do you also think that interstate highways are not postal roads? Or that aircraft should be left under state control? That electronic mass media is not the press? The idea of the constitution was to set limitted categories of federal powers, making the rest remain state powers and to assure basic individual rights cannot be trumped by either.

    Arms was never intended to be limitted to single shot, muzzle loading arms, but to those capable of common military (defense) use.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  7. #67
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Do you actually think this thread represents the first time this was discussed here at DP? (Or, indeed, within the first 100 times?)
    it is only in dispute by the uneducated and misinformed the founding fathers made it perfectly clear what was meant in the 2nd amendment if you do a little research

  8. #68
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Which is why I maintain that the second amendment's original meaning relates only to a militia right.
    A "militia right"? You can't be serious.

  9. #69
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    A "militia right"? You can't be serious.
    Who knows, he spews this crap trying to create controversy. There is no scholarly support for his comments.



  10. #70
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    The Second Amendment is the least clear and most misunderstood of the ten amendments comprising the Bill of Rights. Likely that is because it deals with an arcane principle of self government. Be assured, it has nothing to do with guns, knives or any other weapon whether suitable for use in combat or not.

    During the American Revolution, the colonists faced a professional army, that is, an army of persons who were in the army either because they wanted to be or because they were forced into it. The British army was not an army of common citizens called to arms to defend their communities. Consequently, these professionals had no reason to be particularly concerned about what they did as soldiers. Their lives and their professional success were tied to their performance as soldiers. If they were called-upon to abuse the citizens of the colonies, so be it. Following orders was the only thing that mattered because that resulted in promotions or, at least, no punishment. This was the standing army the Founders feared. Its loyalty was to itself not to the People.

    To obviate the problem, the Founders wished to create a citizen army, an army of common citizens who would not abuse the rights of the People. Such an army, a militia could be trusted where a professional army could not. The Second Amendment declares for the People a right to a citizen army. In saying "keep and bear arms," it says the People may create and manage their citizen army and serve in it themselves. That phrase, widely and wildly misunderstood, is not about owning and carrying guns.
    Proud to be a tax and spend leftist.

    Proud supporter of the real Second Amendment.

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