View Poll Results: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

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  • You can have any gun you want and no one can stop you.

    17 33.33%
  • You can have any ARM you want. Why stop at guns? Knives, grenades, nunchucks, tanks...it's all good!

    10 19.61%
  • Yeah, you can have a gun, but there are limits to that right, like every other right.

    21 41.18%
  • You can have a gun so you can join in a militia instead of having a standing army.

    10 19.61%
  • You can have an 18th century single-shot firearm and no one can stop you.

    8 15.69%
  • You and your gun cannot be singled out by the government, it has to follow it's own laws

    8 15.69%
  • As a principle you should have the right to a gun, but we're not going to explain how.

    4 7.84%
  • It's purposefully vague.

    5 9.80%
  • Other

    10 19.61%
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Thread: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

  1. #151
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    Are you saying the Civil Rights Act of 1964 is unconstitutional?
    I'll say it!

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #152
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I'll say it!
    Why is it unconstitutional?
    Proud to be a tax and spend leftist.

    Proud supporter of the real Second Amendment.

  3. #153
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    Why is it unconstitutional?
    Because there is no authorization for the government to compel the people to do what they want.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  4. #154
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Because there is no authorization for the government to compel the people to do what they want.
    The government does a lot of things it has no authorization to do. Are they all unconstitutional?
    Proud to be a tax and spend leftist.

    Proud supporter of the real Second Amendment.

  5. #155
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    The government does a lot of things it has no authorization to do. Are they all unconstitutional?
    Obviously.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #156
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    You should do some research.

    You're wrong.
    show me in the constitution, where you are given rights, .....no where.

    rights exist becuase of your humanity, you have them whether government exist of not, someone could suppress those rights, but they still exist.

    which in America the DOI does not grant /give rights ..it states they are endowed to you, by a higher power,...not the people or government.

    then the constitution comes along and recognizes those preexisting rights, and places prohibitions on the government not to infringe on them, by making the bill of rights of .......restrictive clauses towards the government.

    during the founders, you had a right to privacy, but it was not listed in the constitution... however it took USSC cases in the last 50 years ...... to place a prohibition on government not to violate ..your privacy.

  7. #157
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    I believe this means we have the right to defend ourselves as well as our rights and ability (if the masses choose) to rebel and recreate a goverment

  8. #158
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Obviously.
    Why hasn't anyone done anything about them? For instance, the various relief programs (TANF, SNAP, WIC) aren't mentioned in the Constitution. Why do they still exist?
    Proud to be a tax and spend leftist.

    Proud supporter of the real Second Amendment.

  9. #159
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    ... rights exist becuase of your humanity, you have them whether government exist of not, someone could suppress those rights, but they still exist ...
    You're confusing interests and rights. Interests exist because of a person's humanity. Communities create rights to allow pursuit of interests.

    For instance, we have property rights because a landowner has an interest in controlling a piece of land.
    Proud to be a tax and spend leftist.

    Proud supporter of the real Second Amendment.

  10. #160
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    Re: What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    Why hasn't anyone done anything about them? For instance, the various relief programs (TANF, SNAP, WIC) aren't mentioned in the Constitution. Why do they still exist?
    simple answer how do you fight the government , who has amassed most of the power and money.

    if the government is sued, who paying the cost for the government bills while being sued...the people doing the suing.

    this is hat the founders say about the powers of government, ...which is the general welfare, and there are 18 powers.



    “[Congressional jurisdiction of power] is limited to certain enumerated objects, which concern all the members of the republic, but which are not to be attained by the separate provisions of any.” – James Madison, Federalist 14

    “The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined . . . to be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce.” – James Madison, Federalist 45

    “If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions.” – James Madison, 1792

    “The Constitution allows only the means which are ‘necessary,’ not those which are merely ‘convenient,’ for effecting the enumerated powers. If such a latitude of construction be allowed to this phrase as to give any non-enumerated power, it will go to every one, for there is not one which ingenuity may not torture into a convenience in some instance or other, to some one of so long a list of enumerated powers. It would swallow up all the delegated powers, and reduce the whole to one power, as before observed” – Thomas Jefferson, 1791

    “Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated.” – Thomas Jefferson, 1798

    There you have it. James Madison, the Constitution’s author and Thomas Jefferson the author of the Declaration of Independence, specifically say that Congressional powers are to be limited and defined – unlike most modern interpretations!

    Admittedly, Jefferson and Madison were not our only Founders. These two were strict constitutionalists who feared the potential strength of any government. So let’s look at another Founder’s opinion—Alexander Hamilton who historically saw it in a somewhat looser vain.

    “This specification of particulars [the 18 enumerated powers of Article I, Section 8] evidently excludes all pretension to a general legislative authority, because an affirmative grant of special powers would be absurd as well as useless if a general authority was intended.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist 83

    Hamilton uncategorically states that all congressional powers are enumerated and that the very existence of these enumerations alone makes any belief that Congress has full and general legislative power to act as it desires nonsensical. If such broad congressional power had been the original intent, the constitutionally specified powers would have been worthless. In other words, why even enumerate any powers at all if the General Welfare clause could trump them?

    “No legislative act … contrary to the Constitution can be valid. To deny this would be to affirm that the deputy is greater than his principal; that the servant is above his master; that the representatives of the people are superior to the people themselves; that men acting by virtue of powers may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what they forbid.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist 78

    In short, Hamilton tells us that since the powers of Congress are enumerated and limit Congress to those powers, any assumed authority outside those specified that don’t have a direct relation to those explicit powers must be contrary to the Constitution and therefore — unconstitutional.

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