View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

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  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Okay. I don't support the idea of a man having a "right" to force a woman to have an abortion, but neither do I support the idea of a woman having a "right" to force a man into fatherhood against his will. Men should have the same right to choose whether or not to become a parent that women have.
    "The same right", not an equivalent right, but the same right, and that right is to have the child aborted.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    The Couple should have the right to abort if both agree and for special cases.

    If the child is born with technical problems, of course they should have that right.
    Envidia te mata !!!

    The blind leading the blind !!!


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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    "The same right", not an equivalent right, but the same right, and that right is to have the child aborted.
    They have the same right not to become parents and to have unwanted fetuses removed from their persons. Neither of them has the right to abort a child that is not growing within them.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I don't think a man should get to make the choice, but I do think that if he wants the baby aborted, and does not plan to be involved in its life, that he should have no legal obligation to the mother if she decides to have it. Afaic, she has the choice, she should be legally responsible.
    This....spot on
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    They have the same right not to become parents and to have unwanted fetuses removed from their persons. Neither of them has the right to abort a child that is not growing within them.
    Once there's a pregnancy, the only way to not become a parent is to abort. Once the child is born, you are a perant.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Once there's a pregnancy, the only way to not become a parent is to abort. Once the child is born, you are a perant.
    Unless you give the kid up for adoption. Or, if you're a man, the mother never tells you. "Parent" is a verb; people who don't parent aren't parents.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Or, if you're a man, the mother never tells you.
    I know a guy who had this happen to him. had sex with a girl he met at a Beta Club convention when he was 15. she got pregnant and never told him, until the kid graduated from HS and she tracked him down (isn't the internet a wonderful thing) and asked for help sending the kid to college. She said she knew he was the father because that was the only one of her kids that wasn't a dumbass. (and it was mixed and he was the only white guy she'd ever slept with). Dude paid for half of the college expenses.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Unless you give the kid up for adoption.
    I've don that. Twice. Adopting those children out was a decision I made as a parent. In fact it's a decision we both had to hold for 6 months after the birth before our parental rights were transferred to the adopting couple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Or, if you're a man, the mother never tells you.
    You're still a parent, you're just an absentee parent. That you're absence isn't your fault changes nothing, you're still a parent and the courts will backdate your child support to prove it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    "Parent" is a verb; people who don't parent aren't parents.
    Go back and look at what you originally said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    They have the same right not to become parents and to have unwanted fetuses removed from their persons.
    That's a reference to a noun. If you had meant a verb you would have said something like "They have the same right not to parent and to have unwanted fetuses removed from their persons."

    Once the child is born, the father is a parent (noun) even if he isn't parenting (verb). He is an absentee or deadbeat 'parent in that case, but is a parent (noun) non the less.

    You said, a few times now, that both the man and woman have the same right to decline to become parents (noun). The only way that happens is through abortion.
    Last edited by Jerry; 09-16-13 at 06:00 PM.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I know a guy who had this happen to him. had sex with a girl he met at a Beta Club convention when he was 15. she got pregnant and never told him, until the kid graduated from HS and she tracked him down (isn't the internet a wonderful thing) and asked for help sending the kid to college. She said she knew he was the father because that was the only one of her kids that wasn't a dumbass. (and it was mixed and he was the only white guy she'd ever slept with). Dude paid for half of the college expenses.
    Nothing like waiting until you need him.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Okay. I don't support the idea of a man having a "right" to force a woman to have an abortion, but neither do I support the idea of a woman having a "right" to force a man into fatherhood against his will. Men should have the same right to choose whether or not to become a parent that women have.
    Vik...you've just listed two things that you don't support. Those two things are the very things that create the legal paradox, which makes the issue so provocative and controversial.

    I see your two points...but where you lose me is your final sentence: "MEN SHOULD HAVE THE SAME RIGHT TO CHOOSE...whether or not to become a parent...that a woman has."

    That begs the question: How is that possible?

    Let me offer the following situations that make this legal paradox so complex.

    Here's how this situation get's sticky...

    Here's how "some men" see a way to NOT BE FORCED to be a parent...as a result of an unintended and/or unwanted conception.

    A law would have to be a created in which it states that in the case of an unintended conception. During the period of non-viability of the embryo or fetus, that the sperm donor can legally declare that he doesn't want to be a father and will have the CHOICE to waiver out of any responsibility for the pregnancy or a child given birth to.

    The declaration must be made during the non-viability period...then the woman can decide if she wants to have an abortion so that she herself doesn't have the burdens involved....or she "chooses" to carry the embryo or fetus to full-term.

    If the woman choose abortion...then he pays half.

    Now...great for the guy if he doesn't want to be a parent.

    HOWEVER:
    What if the woman doesn't believe in abortion. OR She isn't financially or physically capable of enduring the pregnancy and raising a child....AND does NOT want to give her child up for adoption because she cannot live with giving her child away to strangers or people she has no guarantee that they'll be good parents?
    But, if he wants to be a parent and she doesn't. There would have to be a law which would force a woman to have birth...because the man filed a suit to intervene for the reason of wanting to be a parent.

    How would that be achieved without forcing a woman to be exposed to all of the risks associated with pregnancy and delivery...along with the acquisition of possible long-term physical traumas to a woman's body resulting from giving birth?

    A man can't physically experience those risks and long-term effects.

    If a man could force the woman to bring to full-term a conception. What would the custody and support agree look like? The woman may not want any responsibility for a child if forced to give birth.

    There's been no discussion about a pregnancy that results in the birth of a child with severe birth defects. Is the man going to take custody and care for such a child...AFTER he somehow legally forced her to give birth...because he wanted to be a parent?
    So now, we're quickly coming back to a huge part of this argument which involves...

    What if the woman wants to bring the conception to full-term and she wants the man to be financially responsible (and shared parenting duties)? And the man DOES NOT WANT TO BE A PARENT!
    Now we're to the point where we are going to engage in a circular argument.


    There are "biological reasons" that there will NEVER BE EQUITABLE LEGAL SOLUTIONS...."YET" Smoke and Mirrors has pointed this out several times.

    But I do want to say that I believe that in the near future that there will be a technological remedies to these legal problems.

    There will always be things in life that will never be fair.


    __________________________________________________ _______________________________


    The current dilemma is related to "legal recourse" for men when an unintended conception occurs. In other word there is the contention that there should be a way to give men "equal" rights with a woman...which would allow the man to also determine the fate of an unintended conception.

    1) a man can't prevent the woman from having an abortion...even it he wants the conception brought to full term and be willing to take full financial responsibility ...and custody without child support.

    2) a man can't prevent the woman from having a child...even if before having sex they agreed that the sexual event was strictly for pleasure and not conception... again he can be forced by court order to be at least jointly financially responsible from prenatal care all the way to 18 years of age child.

    __________________________________________________ ________________________________


    My opinion regarding “surprise conceptions” is:

    A) If a woman who has a "surprise conception"...and knows that she will abort. Her best option is not to disclose the conception. That automatically removes any adversities between her and the person she co-conceived with. There will be no legal arguments. And there will be no moral arguments.

    B) If a woman has a "surprise conception" and decides she will carry it to full-term and she decides she will holds the co-conceiver equally responsible for all that follows...then the co-conceiver has no legal ground to opt out, therefore the co-conceiver must prepare to pay the piper.

    C) If the woman discloses the "surprise conception" and is determined to have an abortion...then MUST BE AWARE AND BE WILLING to opening herself up to potential legal issues, moral issues, and other adversities that can be raised by the man she co-conceived with.

    By circumstance of birth...women are already burden with a very unfair role in reproduction. Consequently, I'll ALWAYS support the following for women: If a woman conceives (regardless of circumstance around the cause of the conception)...and she chooses to abort for any reason whatsoever...prior to viability stage...regardless of the co-conceivers opinions or objections.

    Life isn't fair with a number of issues between men and women. But women have been on the short side of issues of fairness and equal rights in so many ways for eons...maybe since the beginning of humanity.

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