View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

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  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #791
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    If a man can refuse to support his child that HE helped create, do you think women are just going to abort their babies? LOL! NO, you and I will be paying for these children as the child's father and creator walks away free from any responsibility.
    Maybe, maybe not. I don't care what they do.

    I've already addressed this fallacy earlier in the thread. Search my name in-thread. We'll be paying for it either way, except perhaps we might be paying for him instead of the kid. Or maybe all three of them, with the nice chunk the government takes for itself off of child support payments for women on assistance.

    Or, perhaps, the woman will consider her choice with these new factors in mind. That could happen too. I imagine it will depend on the woman.

    He should think about this and wear protection at all times. If not, then he is responsible, regardless of what the woman decides to do.
    And who says he didn't? Condoms aren't 100% effective.

    Regardless, she still has no right to own his life for a decision SHE made.

    He does not control his sperm any more than she controls her ova. You've said a woman "can't help" getting pregnant, but you think a man somehow dictates what his sperm do or whether the condom breaks in all cases? Do you read what you write?

    Exactly, and I use the same argument with women. If you don't want to pay, then don't play. It's a simple concept. If you decide to play, then you realize what CAN result in such activities. You are giving your consent at the time of the act as you are aware.
    Well, then you're wrong in both cases.

    The fact that you think of children as a punishment on the parents is so callous I don't even know where to begin. Yes, you're obviously so concerned about the child.

    So now you think he can force a woman to give her child up for adoption? Wow that's effing harsh. Grow a frigging heart will you? If a man has consensual sex with a woman and she gets pregnant as a result, he is responsible, regardless of whether or not he thinks it's "fair." LIFE isn't fair.
    Uh, no. I think she can make her choice about that.

    What I said is that a woman has a right to give up a child. There is no biological mandate that she care for it.

    So why are you using biology as a way to deny men a right that women have? Women can and do give up their children. Why can't men?

    I have no heart? You're the one who thinks children should be wielded as a punishment against people whose sex lives you disagree with.

    This is true but changes nothing about what I said. BOTH are responsible. It just so happens that nature decided to make the woman the one to carry and bear the child. So cry to mother nature about how "unfair" it is.
    It's true that she assumes full responsibility, but it doesn't change that he should have to pay for her choices and take on her responsibilities as though she were a child herself?

    Mother nature has nothing to do with it. Mother nature is utterly silent on who "has" to care for a baby.

    Of course not, that is why the man who chose to sleep with a woman and not protect himself is also responsible, regardless of what the woman's decision might be. If he doesn't like that, he should keep his trouser snake inside his trousers. SEX comes with consequences and they are not always "fair."
    People whose sex lives erk you should be punished with a child they don't care for. Got it. I'm heartless. Right.

  2. #792
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Maybe, maybe not. I don't care what they do.

    I've already addressed this fallacy earlier in the thread. Search my name in-thread. We'll be paying for it either way, except perhaps we might be paying for him instead of the kid. Or maybe all three of them, with the nice chunk the government takes for itself off of child support payments for women on assistance.

    Or, perhaps, the woman will consider her choice with these new factors in mind. That could happen too. I imagine it will depend on the woman.



    And who says he didn't? Condoms aren't 100% effective.

    Regardless, she still has no right to own his life for a decision SHE made.

    He does not control his sperm any more than she controls her ova. You've said a woman "can't help" getting pregnant, but you think a man somehow dictates what his sperm do or whether the condom breaks in all cases? Do you read what you write?



    Well, then you're wrong in both cases.

    The fact that you think of children as a punishment on the parents is so callous I don't even know where to begin. Yes, you're obviously so concerned about the child.



    Uh, no. I think she can make her choice about that.

    What I said is that a woman has a right to give up a child. There is no biological mandate that she care for it.

    So why are you using biology as a way to deny men a right that women have? Women can and do give up their children. Why can't men?

    I have no heart? You're the one who thinks children should be wielded as a punishment against people whose sex lives you disagree with.



    It's true that she assumes full responsibility, but it doesn't change that he should have to pay for her choices and take on her responsibilities as though she were a child herself?

    Mother nature has nothing to do with it. Mother nature is utterly silent on who "has" to care for a baby.



    People whose sex lives erk you should be punished with a child they don't care for. Got it. I'm heartless. Right.
    Look you can be illogical all you want about this issue. The bottom line is both men and women are aware that pregnancy can and does result from sex. If they don't want to be responsible, then they have no business having sex. That is the problem with our society and the reason why unwanted children exist to begin with.

    Now since this will NEVER happen, then both people who were involved are both responsible for any life that results from such a union. It is just too damn bad if you don't like it.

  3. #793
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Look you can be illogical all you want about this issue. The bottom line is both men and women are aware that pregnancy can and does result from sex. If they don't want to be responsible, then they have no business having sex. That is the problem with our society and the reason why unwanted children exist to begin with.

    Now since this will NEVER happen, then both people who were involved are both responsible for any life that results from such a union. It is just too damn bad if you don't like it.
    Your version of "responsibility" is for a child to be used as a billy club to the life and psyche of people who are unable to raise it. I don't find that either caring or responsible.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Your version of "responsibility" is for a child to be used as a billy club to the life and psyche of people who are unable to raise it. I don't find that either caring or responsible.
    Absolutely not. I am being a realist. People who are "unable" to raise children have them all the time. The question is what is BEST for the child, and that is to have BOTH parents in it's life, financially as well as emotionally.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post

    ...
    Who takes care of that baby is NOT governed by biology. The woman can give up the baby. Why can't the man?...

    Yes, he can, just like she can. Have you forgotten about the whole adoption industry?...
    .
    Just a reminder.

    In the case of adoption both bio parents have to give up their parental rights.
    Only 2 percent of born infants are given up for adoption.

    Adoption is not a realistic solution.
    Last edited by minnie616; 09-16-13 at 09:58 AM.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Just a reminder.

    In the case of adoption both bio parents have to give up their parental rights.
    Only 2 percent of born infants are given up for adoption.

    Adoption is not a realistic solution.
    Unless she never declares a father, which is relatively easy for her to do.

    I'm not suggesting adoption as a solution. I'm just demonstrating that women have a right to give up their children, that this right is not governed by biology but rather by who claims responsibility, and that therefore there is no reason to deny that right to men.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Good Lord Smoke! That is because of BIOLOGY. Women can't help or control if they get pregnant. Seeing as how men know full well that the results of ejaculating inside of a woman's body is a BABY, then they give the control to the woman at the time of sexual intercourse when the man CHOOSES to not protect himself by using a condom.
    So women can't help or control if they get pregnant, but men can?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Also, an important thing for YOU to remember is this is about the CHILD that results from the union and that child's right to be supported by both parents. It isn't about the selfish man or woman.
    Unless, of course, the woman decides to abort the child or give it up for adoption. In either of those cases, the child ends up supported by neither of its biological parents.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    So women can't help or control if they get pregnant, but men can?
    Did I say that? I don't think I did. Until there is a form of BC that is 100%, that is a risk you knowingly take when you engage in sexual activity, both man and woman.

    Unless, of course, the woman decides to abort the child or give it up for adoption. In either of those cases, the child ends up supported by neither of its biological parents.
    Adoption usually will not occur if one party does not wish for it, so that argument is bogus. Both parents have to sign off on an adoption. As far as abortion, I would prefer responsible behaviors from BOTH parties to avoid such an outcome, but it is the woman's body and the woman's risk because she has to have a procedure on her body no matter her choice. The man faces NO such risks.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Did I say that? I don't think I did. Until there is a form of BC that is 100%, that is a risk you knowingly take when you engage in sexual activity, both man and woman.
    And yet, women have a legal and moral right to not be forced into parental responsibilities they don't want... while men should just "keep their legs shut".

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Adoption usually will not occur if one party does not wish for it, so that argument is bogus. Both parents have to sign off on an adoption.
    Unless, as Smoke has already pointed out, the woman simply claims not to know who the father is. I absolutely support her right to do this... but it's dishonest to claim that it doesn't happen.l

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    As far as abortion, I would prefer responsible behaviors from BOTH parties to avoid such an outcome, but it is the woman's body and the woman's risk because she has to have a procedure on her body no matter her choice. The man faces NO such risks.
    Indeed. But the lack of medical risks to the "father" in no fashion justifies the fact that he is legally forced to become a parent against his will.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    While I certainly agree that a father actually abandoning the new family he just created through voluntary action is both despicable and likely to result in more abortions, more kids in the adoption system, more poverty and hardship - a real **** deal all around - at least it's logically consistent with the view that a mom can unilaterally and entirely abdicate responsibility by hiring a killer.

    So yeah, it's awful but at least folks who believe as she does are consistent in their awfulness... or something.
    I think it just comes down to this, I do not support something that makes abortion more likely, and I imagine S&M would support anything that would make the "choice" of abortion more likely.

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