View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

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  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #781
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    opendebate's Avatar
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    It's late, I'm going to bed.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
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  2. #782
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Your whole response to mine was based on the premise that it was currently unfair to men. WTH are you talking about?
    I'm simply stating reality isn't fair. At present, there is nothing we can do to make it fair without enslaving one sex or the other.

    That being the case, we must simply deal with the unfairness, in order to afford everyone maximum rights over their person.

    That is not an acquiescence. Explain that one too me. Seriously, I am not being sarcastic. Explain that.
    I don't believe a man should have any say over what a woman does with a pregnancy.

    I want rights with equal responsibility.
    No, you don't. You want women to be able to make a choice without the man's input, and then foist the responsibility that comes with that choice onto the man.

    That's not the point. It is the form of birth control men have available to them and have an obligation to themselves to use.
    Sure, but again, reality is imperfect. I don't believe the imperfection of reality is a good enough reason to enslave men, any more than it is a good enough reason to enslave women.

    If you think that's what I sound like then you are not understanding my posts. I said EQUAL responsibility. Men AND women both have an obligation to keep what they contribute to a pregnancy under control.
    No, you don't.

    You believe both have that obligation, BUT you think that if they don't meet it, or if it fails to work, that a woman has the right to decide to either not have a child, or not keep a child.

    On the other hand, you believe men have absolutely no rights at all, and must be forced to float the woman's unilateral decision at his own detriment.

    I am beginning to wonder if you are serious.
    As they come.

    How exactly is it punishment for them men but taking responsibility for the women?
    Your wording -- "get off free" -- reveals a lot about how you think about this issue. You don't want men to "get off free." You think they should have to pay for something. You view a mandate to support the woman's decision as a punishment, however subliminally.

    This is a direct analog to the way anti-choicers feel about women, when they say abortion is "not taking responsibility."

    As to how it is forcing men to be responsible for women, I have explained this.

  3. #783
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    And what gives the woman the right to have an indentured servant for 20 years?
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  4. #784
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well I could do that, but one thing to add, right to association means to have a right to associate with other people or not associate with other people, this stated by the court.
    If the right to property means the government should not be able to build a highway through your farmland separating the house, barn and buildings from the farming land. I hear ya loud and clear. That happened to my grandparents farm in the 1930s.

    The barn and creamery were on one side of the state hi way and the grazing land for the dairy cattle were on the other side.

    Unless there is a court restraint order I don't know why a person would not be able to associate with another person or a group .

    That is all I have to say on that subject on this tread.

    This thread is about the topic of abortion not people's rights.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  5. #785
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    You know... If it was that the man could opt out women wouldn't be running around having casual sex. The way it is now, men shouldn't be. They are and they are getting stuck with 18 years. If it was the other way around and women said no until marriage, for instance, then there would be no unplanned or unwanted pregnancies AT ALL and I would think that this is what would satisfy all sides to this debate. We should not be punishing either gender for people that want to have sex with others that they do not want to have a child with. I am a hypocrite about this too... I did it. It was stupid. I was lucky and never got one pregnant though...
    Having men opt out is not going to stop people from having pre martial sex.
    After World War II the so called sexual revolution was already underway.
    And guys could opt out claiming the kid was not his.( before DNA ) so your sweet no unwanted pregnancies and only married couples is not at all realistic.

    Also unwanted pregnancies do take place in marriage and committed relationships.
    In fact there was a study about unwanted pregnancies and abortions that take place in marriage and committed relationships.
    44 percent of the time it was the man who first brought up abortion when an unwanted pregnancy occurred.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  6. #786
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Allowing men to have agency over their own life is "control" over a woman's decision?

    I'm sorry, but BS. And this argument works just as well in reverse: if a man wants to be a father but the woman aborts, then the woman is "controlling" the man's decision.
    Hello? This the point I've been trying to make all along. If the man is given the right to insist upon an abortion then he can also insist that she carry a baby to term and deliver it. This IS giving men the power and control over a woman's body, either way.

    That is ludicrous. People having control over their own life is not "controlling" anyone else. No one else is ENTITLED to the body or the resources of someone else. You are arguing that women -- and ONLY women -- are in fact entitled to that. That women own men.
    Good Lord Smoke! That is because of BIOLOGY. Women can't help or control if they get pregnant. Seeing as how men know full well that the results of ejaculating inside of a woman's body is a BABY, then they give the control to the woman at the time of sexual intercourse when the man CHOOSES to not protect himself by using a condom.

    Ideally, everyone should tell their partner where they stand before sex happens. I always do this. But just because someone didn't, or perhaps changed their mind, doesn't mean they are entitled to squat.
    Exactly, if a man has sex with a woman, she gets pregnant, he can't just "change his mind" later.

    Also, an important thing for YOU to remember is this is about the CHILD that results from the union and that child's right to be supported by both parents. It isn't about the selfish man or woman.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Having men opt out is not going to stop people from having pre martial sex.
    After World War II the so called sexual revolution was already underway.
    And guys could opt out claiming the kid was not his.( before DNA ) so your sweet no unwanted pregnancies and only married couples is not at all realistic.

    Also unwanted pregnancies do take place in marriage and committed relationships.
    In fact there was a study about unwanted pregnancies and abortions that take place in marriage and committed relationships.
    44 percent of the time it was the man who first brought up abortion when an unwanted pregnancy occurred.
    I can't even believe people are bringing this up because they are selfish and concerned only with "their" rights and screw the child. There are a lot of SICK people in the world. That's why men like this should have a contract in their pocket and have the women they want to sleep with read it. This way the woman, if she's smart, would avoid this man like the plague and NOT have sex with him to begin with.

  8. #788
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    A man has an absolute right not to engage in sexual intercourse with a woman.

  9. #789
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Hello? This the point I've been trying to make all along. If the man is given the right to insist upon an abortion then he can also insist that she carry a baby to term and deliver it. This IS giving men the power and control over a woman's body, either way.
    Uh, ok. And I don't support that either. What's your point?

    I'm not saying a man can "insist" anything, except what he will do with his OWN life.

    Good Lord Smoke! That is because of BIOLOGY. Women can't help or control if they get pregnant. Seeing as how men know full well that the results of ejaculating inside of a woman's body is a BABY, then they give the control to the woman at the time of sexual intercourse when the man CHOOSES to not protect himself by using a condom.
    Yes, I know. That's why women have a right to abort or not. But guess what?

    Who takes care of that baby is NOT governed by biology. The woman can give up the baby. Why can't the man?

    What you just did is use the "keep your legs shut" argument against men.

    Exactly, if a man has sex with a woman, she gets pregnant, he can't just "change his mind" later.

    Also, an important thing for YOU to remember is this is about the CHILD that results from the union and that child's right to be supported by both parents. It isn't about the selfish man or woman.
    Yes, he can, just like she can. Have you forgotten about the whole adoption industry?

    Well, if that's the case, then the woman needs to consider her ability to care for the child if the man is unwilling to do so, seeing as how he has every much as right as her to decide he doesn't want to, and she made that decision regardless of his feelings on the matter, thus assuming full responsibility for HER choice.

    You cannot have choice without responsibility.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Uh, ok. And I don't support that either. What's your point?

    I'm not saying a man can "insist" anything, except what he will do with his OWN life.
    If a man can refuse to support his child that HE helped create, do you think women are just going to abort their babies? LOL! NO, you and I will be paying for these children as the child's father and creator walks away free from any responsibility.



    Yes, I know. That's why women have a right to abort or not. But guess what?

    Who takes care of that baby is NOT governed by biology. The woman can give up the baby. Why can't the man?
    He should think about this and wear protection at all times. If not, then he is responsible, regardless of what the woman decides to do.

    What you just did is use the "keep your legs shut" argument against men.
    Exactly, and I use the same argument with women. If you don't want to pay, then don't play. It's a simple concept. If you decide to play, then you realize what CAN result in such activities. You are giving your consent at the time of the act as you are aware.

    Yes, he can, just like she can. Have you forgotten about the whole adoption industry?
    So now you think he can force a woman to give her child up for adoption? Wow that's effing harsh. Grow a frigging heart will you? If a man has consensual sex with a woman and she gets pregnant as a result, he is responsible, regardless of whether or not he thinks it's "fair." LIFE isn't fair.

    Well, if that's the case, then the woman needs to consider her ability to care for the child if the man is unwilling to do so, seeing as how he has every much as right as her to decide he doesn't want to, and she made that decision regardless of his feelings on the matter, thus assuming full responsibility for HER choice.
    This is true but changes nothing about what I said. BOTH are responsible. It just so happens that nature decided to make the woman the one to carry and bear the child. So cry to mother nature about how "unfair" it is.

    You cannot have choice without responsibility.
    Of course not, that is why the man who chose to sleep with a woman and not protect himself is also responsible, regardless of what the woman's decision might be. If he doesn't like that, he should keep his trouser snake inside his trousers. SEX comes with consequences and they are not always "fair."

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