View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

Voters
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  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #721
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    so if I have authority ,then where does that authority come from, it does not come from the constitution , because the constitution does not grant or give any authority to the people, it only places limitations on government.

    authority which comes from government is a privilege, ..........so authority which does not come from government is a right.

    so authority is a right............. when government is prohibited from creating law which infringe on that authority.
    The authority comes from the Constitution in that the state cannot prevent a woman from her right to have an abortion.

  2. #722
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    We, as a society, are highly hypocritical about this stuff. We tell the woman that she gets to choose whether to bear the consequences of her choice to have un- or inadequately-protected sex, both pregnancy and the financial part... no baby, no support costs. We tell her NOBODY can tell her she has to let that baby grow in her body if she does not want it, including the father. At the same time we tell the man "hey, you went there, so you're on the hook buddy! Should'a kept it in your pants if you didn't want to pay!"

    Incredibly hypocritical double standard.

    I understand the urge to equalize things by allowing the man to "abort his financial responsibility" during the term when abortion is allowed, if he doesn't want the baby and she decides to keep it. I can see viewing this as fair, and in a sense it is.

    However I have some reservations about it...

    1. More children growing up in poverty.
    2. More moms on gov't assistance, putting more strain on a system already generating over a trillion debt per year.
    3. More abortions as many young men will opt out of fiscal responsibility, and many young women will decide going it alone isn't worth it.

    So I dunno...
    Well, I have tried to address some of those questions in prior posts, but not all. Let me see if I can hash some answers out...

    1. More children growing up in poverty. Perhaps, but perhaps not. First, recognizing that a womans right to choose remains the same we are ensuring that she tries to make an informed decision. On the one hand, if the male is both supportive and looking forward to marriage and family and she decides to carry to term, then nothing really changes from current status quo. However, if the male indicates that he is not interested in either marriage or family and the law allows him the right to opt-out of further responsibility, then she is now required to take the full burden upon herself. Many of the women who would normally choose to keep a baby would now choose to abort. This, combined with my answers to the following questions might serve to reduce the number of children of single parents facing poverty.

    2. More moms on gov't assistance, putting more strain on a system already generating over a trillion debt per year. A public policy change allowing a man to opt-out during the initial stages of pregnancy would also require modification of current welfare law. The modification under such a scenario might include limiting welfare to child support, child medical support, and day care coverage, but NOT full compensation for the mother who would be required to find work for her personal support. Thus, a woman seeing no male child support and finding that she would not be able to simply "live free" by having children is more likely to decide to abort.

    3. More abortions as many young men will opt out of fiscal responsibility, and many young women will decide going it alone isn't worth it. This is highly likely, but seems a better recourse than producing dysfunctional families and all the attendant social issues and costs they create. Recall, during the initial 9 weeks there are non-surgical medical methods that stimulate a non-invasive abortion process. This includes the "morning after" pill, and then other medications that induce menstruation. Although a woman may not be aware until the end of the second week that she is pregnant, that still gives her time to inform the male to discover his position, and leave her up to 35 days to use the non-intrusive medical methods.

    The point is that it should remain a woman's absolute choice, but she should make an informed and rational decision based on the question: "Can I take full responsibility and care for the child on my own if I have it?"

    It should not be left to emotion, nor calculation based on: "Well I've got plenty of safety nets in social welfare and laws forcing the guy to pay me; and if worse comes to worst I can always sell it to some couple for adoption...so what the hell let's do it!"
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 09-16-13 at 12:30 AM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  3. #723
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Bull****. He factually confessed to murder.

    He committed murder. He is factually a murderer.

    Whatever he may have plead to, he was charged with murder and in his confession he confirmed he had done exactly that.
    Can you kindly post a link to an article which states he "confessed to murder?" I looked, but I cannot find one.

  4. #724
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Well, I have tried to address some of those questions in prior posts, but not all. Let me see if I can hash some answers out...

    1. More children growing up in poverty. Perhaps, but perhaps not. First, recognizing that a womans right to choose remains the same we are ensuring that she tries to make an informed decision. On the one hand, if the male is both supportive and looking forward to marriage and family and she decides to carry to term, then nothing really changes from current status quo. However, if the male indicates that he is not interested in either marriage or family and the law allows him the right to opt-out of further responsibility, then she is now required to take the full burden upon herself. Many of the women who would normally choose to keep a baby would now choose to abort. This, combined with my answers to the following questions might serve to reduce the number of children of single parents facing poverty.

    2. More moms on gov't assistance, putting more strain on a system already generating over a trillion debt per year. A public policy change allowing a man to opt-out during the initial stages of pregnancy would also require modification of current welfare law. The modification under such a scenario might include limiting welfare to child support, child medical support, and day care coverage, but NOT full compensation for the mother who would be required to find work for her personal support. Thus, a woman seeing no male child support and finding that she would not be able to simply "live free" by having children is more likely to decide to abort.

    3. More abortions as many young men will opt out of fiscal responsibility, and many young women will decide going it alone isn't worth it. This is highly likely, but seems a better recourse than producing dysfunctional families and all the attendant social issues and costs they create. Recall, during the initial 9 weeks there are non-surgical medical methods that stimulate a non-invasive abortion process. This includes the "morning after" pill, and then other medications that induce menstruation. Although a woman may not be aware until the end of the second week that she is pregnant, that still gives her time to inform the male to discover his position, and leave her up to 35 days to use the non-intrusive medical methods.

    The point is that it should remain a woman's absolute choice, but she should make an informed and rational decision based on the question: "Can I take full responsibility and care for the child on my own if I have it?"

    It should not be left to emotion, nor calculation based on: "Well I've got plenty of safety nets in social welfare and laws forcing the guy to pay me; and if worse comes to worst I can always sell it to some couple for adoption...so what the hell let's do it!"
    Thank goodness this is not legal and more than likely never will be. The only way any of this would be valid is if you have an agreement before sex. This way, a woman can avoid this man completely and not have to worry about it at all.

  5. #725
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well I have not gone in abortion.

    the constitution recognizes rights and privileges exist..........there is nothing else but those -------------2

    if government gives you a privilege, then that is authority from government to act on something.

    if I have authority to act outside of government, that is a right.

    so there is no separate authority............... its either a right or a privilege
    Abortion is a right.

  6. #726
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    You have no idea how utterly stupid that is. It makes about as much sense as the idiots who say that gay people have the same rights as straight people, they just have to marry people of the other gender.
    And yet, it remains true. Abortion is Constitutionally legal. Since only women can get pregnant, only women can make the choice to terminate their unborn non-person.

  7. #727
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Well please start a thread about property right and right of association.

    Please include what property rights you think are being infringed upon
    And what you mean by right of association.
    well I could do that, but one thing to add, right to association means to have a right to associate with other people or not associate with other people, this stated by the court.

  8. #728
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Can you kindly post a link to an article which states he "confessed to murder?" I looked, but I cannot find one.
    He confessed to giving his girlfriend an abortion pill in a deliberately mislabeled bottle, a pill not prescribed to her, nor asked for, nor wanted by her.

    That is a confession to murder under the UVVA, which requires the homicide he committed to be dealt with the same way as the homicide of any born human.


    As it stands right now, a mother may elect to commit legal homicide despite a lack of justification. A father cannot.


    I am not in the habit of calling homicides that should be murder "murder." Abortion should be prosecuted as murder but it is not currently.

    His action was an illegal premeditated aggressive homicide which explicitly fits the criminal code for murder, and he has confessed to it.

    Under our criminal code as it stands RIGHT NOW, he is a murderer and he confessed to murder. If he is allowed to plead to a lesser charge, then that is a travesty... but he is a confessed murderer just the same.
    Last edited by JayDubya; 09-16-13 at 12:50 AM.

  9. #729
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfie View Post
    That was a statement..not a reply...
    Why are you making a statement to a person about something that they are not talking about then?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Why are you making a statement to a person about something that they are not talking about then?
    Because she's wolfie that's why!

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