View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

Voters
101. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
Page 70 of 150 FirstFirst ... 2060686970717280120 ... LastLast
Results 691 to 700 of 1494

Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #691
    Sage
    minnie616's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    14,942

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    ok I accept that, thats very good you know your stuff.

    so this would be a liberty /property right being exercised would it not?
    Actually it is a right to privacy regarding reproductivity.
    In 1965 the precedent of a right to privacy regarding a woman/ couples right to use of contraceptives was uphead.
    Before that the right to privacy regarding child rearing was upheld.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  2. #692
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    jerry, I was stating to you in 672, that I did not say you wanted to use of force, and that it was question, and that question was to...........united from 665
    I never said you did say I was using force, though.

  3. #693
    Renaissance Man
    Captain Adverse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Mid-West USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    8,550
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    That manner of thinking assumes the worst of women and ignores the fact that since there are two parties involved and that there is equal responsibility. You can't have a baby without there being two people involved.
    Actually it is possible to have a baby without two people being involved, scientifically speaking. ("Cloning.") Just a point of information.

    Over and over again you keep ignoring the fact that while it may take TWO to conceive current law allows ONE to decide if that conception will lead to birth or not. The arguments made do not assume the "worst" of women, they EMPOWER women.

    The person who exercises that absolute power of choice whether to abort or not also exercises the absolute power of choice during the sex act, i.e. to decide exactly what will be done with her body and how it will occur. The MALE does not control that decision either. Thus, while two parties are involved only ONE has absolute power and therefore absolute control over the activity.

    If both parties are equally responsible for conception, then both parties would have the same right to unilaterally abort or have the child. This is NOT the case.

    I find it amusing that people forget all of this and simply focus on asserting one thing: that the mere fact a man ejaculates somehow makes him an equally responsible partner in this process. It is an emotional rather than a rational argument, and holds no real water.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 09-15-13 at 10:16 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  4. #694
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Actually it is a right to privacy regarding reproductivity.
    In 1965 the precedent of a right to privacy regarding a woman/ couples right to use of contraceptives was uphead.
    Before that the right to privacy regarding child rearing was upheld.
    ok you saying it a right then?

    if you have a right to privacy , as you say.

    do you have a right to property, the DOI says you do, and the constitution says you do twice.

    also there is what is know as right to association.

    a right cannot limited unless I am infringing on the rights of another citizen, which would be a crime........criminal law, or my actions could infringe on the right of other people.

    can you explain how government cannot make a law, because you have a right to privacy, .....but they make laws which violate the right to property and right to association. with discrimination laws?

    since no person is having his rights violated by discrimination, and discrimination laws are not criminal law, but statutory laws.

    how do you have a right to privacy?...because the USSC says it a right. even though it written in the constitution twice you have a right to property.

    why does the left support one right court stated, and don't support a right which is actually written.

  5. #695
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I never said you did say I was using force, though.
    ok jerry, its done, and I never questioned you post, so its all good.

  6. #696
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,774

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Actually it is possible to have a baby without two people being involved, scientifically speaking. ("Cloning.") Just a point of information.

    Over and over again you keep ignoring the fact that while it may take TWO to conceive current law allows ONE to decide if that conception will lead to birth or not. The arguments made do not assume the "worst" of women, they EMPOWER women.

    The person who exercises that absolute power of choice whether to abort or not also exercises the power of choice during the sex act, i.e. to decide exactly what will be done with her body and how it will occur. The MALE does not control that decision either. Thus, while two parties are involved only ONE has absolute power and therefore absolute control over the activity.

    If both parties are equally responsible for conception, then both parties would have the same right to unilaterally abort or have the child. This is NOT the case.

    I find it amusing that people forget all of this and simply focus on asserting one thing: that the mere fact a man ejaculates somehow makes him an equal partner in this process. It is an emotional rather than a rational argument, and holds no real water.
    If the point is to guarantee equality of the sexes, then the current situation does not guarantee equality, it guarantees inequality. If the man is an equal partner, then he deserves equal rights and equal responsibilities. The current situation provides neither. The woman has 100% of the control and the man has zero control over the decisions made. If the man is responsible for life because he had sex with the woman, then the woman is equally responsible for life because she had sex with the man. An equal situation would guarantee equal outcomes. Either the man can opt out of raising the child, or the woman cannot opt out of having it. You shouldn't get it both ways.

    If you don't see that, then it's you who is being absurdly emotional.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  7. #697
    A Man Without A Country
    Mr. Invisible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 06:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,957
    Blog Entries
    71

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Actually it is possible to have a baby without two people being involved, scientifically speaking. ("Cloning.") Just a point of information.

    Over and over again you keep ignoring the fact that while it may take TWO to conceive current law allows ONE to decide if that conception will lead to birth or not. The arguments made do not assume the "worst" of women, they EMPOWER women.

    The person who exercises that absolute power of choice whether to abort or not also exercises the power of choice during the sex act, i.e. to decide exactly what will be done with her body and how it will occur. The MALE does not control that decision either. Thus, while two parties are involved only ONE has absolute power and therefore absolute control over the activity.

    If both parties are equally responsible for conception, then both parties would have the same right to unilaterally abort or have the child. This is NOT the case.

    I find it amusing that people forget all of this and simply focus on asserting one thing: that the mere fact a man ejaculates somehow makes him an equal partner in this process. It is an emotional rather than a rational argument, and holds no real water.

    I am arguing with Liz in regards to the views she has stated.

    When I voted, the voted for the option which read: No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  8. #698
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    07-16-14 @ 01:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    47,571

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Should a man have an absolute right to have his baby aborted?

    In the alternative, should he be granted relief from all legal responsibility if it is his clearly stated wish to abort but the woman decides not to?

    Let me preface my remarks with this disclaimer; I am Pro-Choice and I support a womanís absolute right to choose to have an abortion for several reasons, including the fact it is the woman who must endure the pregnancy to carry the child to term, and then follows the lifelong responsibility to raise and care for any child born.

    The dilemma occurs when the woman unilaterally decides to have the baby, even when the male does not wish to accept that long-term responsibility.

    In a recent news report, a young man was so desperate not to have a child that he tricked his girlfriend into taking a morning after pill. Now I do not support or condone this action, but it does bring up the thesis issue for meÖwhy does the male partner have no say in a decision to keep the baby?

    When a woman makes the unilateral decision to keep the baby this then compels lifelong legal and emotional obligations on the part of the unwilling father. This creates resentment and recriminations in both parties. By attempting to force the man to marry and/or support both her and the child this only serves to create a negative environment for all concerned, especially for any child to grow up in.

    Since we now have a simple method of aborting in the early stages of the first trimester, without needing an invasive surgery, why should the absolute choice to keep the baby reside with the mother? If it does, why canít the man be legally relieved of further responsibility to both parties?

    I have offered several voting options, please pick and then explain what do you think? I am especially interested in arguments for why the woman has the sole right to keep the child while making the man permanently responsible.
    Regarding your poll choice of "no, only the woman has this right but the man remains responsible." If the woman gets an abortion, then the man has no responsibility. Do you see what I'm saying? That choice doesn't really make sense the way you have it worded.

  9. #699
    Irremovable Intelligence
    Removable Mind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:32 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    23,497

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    You've confused me by your response to Cephus. Why do you think the concern is only financial? When there is an unwanted pregnancy one of two situations will result: either the man agrees to marry the woman and try to asssume full parental responsibility, or he rejects marriage and is compelled by law to assume financial responsibilities.

    In the first case, where the male is unhappy and only "doing what's right" when he marries the woman; he will resent his position and act out in various ways while he remains tied to the marriage and family scenario. Whether this scenario ends in divorce or not, his attitude while married often results in spousal abuse (intiated by either the man or the woman), child physical and/or emotional abuse, and all sorts of other horrors. If he divorces and tries to start a family with a woman he does "love" this creates further issues, both for his new family and the old one.

    In the second case, even though he tries to avoid further contact he is bound by his child support duties. Thus he is often challenged by the mother in court as the child ages and costs increase. Meanwhile he has to continue to deal with her as she argues, cajoles, negotiates, rants, demands, etc.

    Then there is the child, who naturally wants to know more about the father. Often the mother's anger is reflected in how she instructs the child about why the father wants nothing to do with it. This leads to many emotional issues with the child. We always hear stories of a child seeking out and trying to confront the father at some later time. Finally, all the issues mentioned about a divorced male starting a new family apply to the father who never stuck with the original woman and child. Now any family he tries to start has to deal with these issues too.

    All of this because the woman has an "out" but the man does not.
    CA...now you've confused me ...I see what your saying, "I think"...but I'm not so sure my reply to Cephus...and now yours is...is as confusing to you both as it now appears to be.

    I did say in my reply...that the issue is more complex than just financial, which was Cephus' argument..and it is. Getting stuck for 18 yrs thing.

    Let me ponder your post and see if I can articulate my position/point...in a more clear and concise way. I can't address this tonight, but I will tomorrow.

    Thanks...
    Last edited by Removable Mind; 09-15-13 at 10:21 PM.

  10. #700
    Renaissance Man
    Captain Adverse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Mid-West USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    8,550
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    If the point is to guarantee equality of the sexes, then the current situation does not guarantee equality, it guarantees inequality. If the man is an equal partner, then he deserves equal rights and equal responsibilities. The current situation provides neither. The woman has 100% of the control and the man has zero control over the decisions made. If the man is responsible for life because he had sex with the woman, then the woman is equally responsible for life because she had sex with the man. An equal situation would guarantee equal outcomes. Either the man can opt out of raising the child, or the woman cannot opt out of having it. You shouldn't get it both ways.

    If you don't see that, then it's you who is being absurdly emotional.
    I'm the one arguing for the "opt-out" right. The entire post you just argued against was MY argument against a members claim that simply by having sex a man has consented to letting the woman decide his obligation for the rest of his life. You've just reworded and said the same thing...so whats the issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    CA...now you've confused me ...I see what your saying, "I think"...but I'm not so sure my reply to Cephus...and now yours is...is as confusing to you both as it now appears to be.

    I did say in my reply...that the issue is more complex than just financial, which was Cephus' argument..and it is. Getting stuck for 18 yrs thing.

    Let me ponder your post and see if I can articulate my position/point...in a more clear and concise way. I can't address this tonight, but I will tomorrow.

    Thanks...
    I was just wondering why you might have thought cephus' argument was solely on the basis of financial obligation. I recognize that yours involves more issues than just finance. I decided to clarify some (but not all) of the non-financial reasons that could justify the opt-out argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    I am arguing with Liz in regards to the views she has stated.

    When I voted, the voted for the option which read: No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.
    But Lizzies point of view is supportive of a man's right to opt out. It always has been throughout the thread. Your response seemed to argue that simply by having sex a man consent's to accepting responsibility for whatever a woman decides to do. If I was mistaken, please forgive me.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 09-15-13 at 10:38 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •