View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

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  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #511
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    I get what Excon is saying. I get what you're saying. However, the language by Excon is...well, not technically correct...and your post not isn't "technically correct.

    Men and women who have sex can agree that a sexual event is intended for pleasure only...and not for conception. But when the "unintended" happens there is an order of events.

    First...fertilization...then a zygote, then a blastocyst, then an embryo, then a non-viable fetus, then a variably developed fetus...then fully mature fetus ready to give birth to.

    Consequently...

    Ex's comment should have been..."consent to sex isn't consent to conception".

    Your claim "Excluding cases were either the man or the woman is incapable of producing a child, pregnancy is always a risk of sex"....should therefore read..."That makes conception consensual even if unintended."

    My point is: At the very most...having sex would only make conception consensual...not "having children". And I'm not implying that I agree with that. I'm only trying to bring out the technical point.

    Ultimately...current laws are....

    A woman, can at will, without the consent of a man, have an abortion, of course complying with the boundaries of Roe v. Wade's viability provision. There is no standing legal recourse for a man that would automatically render her "choice" impotent.

    My question to you is: I see your "exclusions" but, how does your "that makes conception consensual even if unintended" more true than Excon's version?

    The fact is, and nothing new to you, is that sex is performed many, many more times for pleasure than procreation.

    Because of the fact the fact sex is performed many, many more times for pleasure...then I believe that unless a man and woman have declared that they are purposely trying to achieve having a pregnancy, that sex is always regarded as an act of pleasure. Not the other way around.

    Therefore the more intended consequence of having sex is to have an orgasm...or two...etc. And that an unintended pregnancy...is not consensual (or by agreement), but rather an unwanted consequence.

    How that unwanted or unintended consequence is managed - at present day - and allowable by law - the woman can decide the fate of that conception...all by herself...within the boundaries of the law.
    The intent for sex is irrelevant. Anytime a couple has sex, whether for pleasure or procreation, there is a chance the woman will get pregnant. Even if it's solely for pleasure and even if birth control is used, it is an implied consent since a child could result. Claiming otherwise is nothing more than a pathetic excuse from a deadbeat trying to evade responsibility.

  2. #512
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    The intent for sex is irrelevant. Anytime a couple has sex, whether for pleasure or procreation, there is a chance the woman will get pregnant. Even if it's solely for pleasure and even if birth control is used, it is an implied consent since a child could result. Claiming otherwise is nothing more than a pathetic excuse from a deadbeat trying to evade responsibility.
    Evade what responsibility?

    The consequence of an unintended "pregnancy"...should be what...in your opinion?

  3. #513
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    This post of yours is absolutely and empirically untrue. There are valid laws in place that not only protect the unborn, there are laws that help their development and health. There are also criminal sanctions against those that harm the unborn in the commission of assaults of various degrees upon them or their mother.
    None of the laws you refer are based on the idea that the unborn have rights. They are based on either protecting the woman's right to choose, ir the governments interest in protecting potential human life, an interest that does not exist until the fetus reaches viability.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #514
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Evade what responsibility?

    The consequence of an unintended "pregnancy"...should be what...in your opinion?
    Evade the responsibility of financially supporting their own child.

    At the very least, even if the father wants to have nothing to do with his own child, is to support his own child financially.

  5. #515
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Evade the responsibility of financially supporting their own child.

    At the very least, even if the father wants to have nothing to do with his own child, is to support his own child financially.
    There is no responsibility to support the unborn. The responsibility to support begins when the child is born
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #516
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I accept your surrender
    But can you accept that a man was just convicted of murder for killing an unborn child?

    You can only "murder" a "person".

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/aborti...s-w-393-a.html

  7. #517
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Evade the responsibility of financially supporting their own child.

    At the very least, even if the father wants to have nothing to do with his own child, is to support his own child financially.
    I don't disagree with what you're saying in terms of support. It's a double whammy deal. Mom...Dad...MUST be responsible for the BIRTH and raising of a child...IF..the woman chooses to carry the conception to full term. And that may not be the case.

    Now we know that most conception are brought to full-term. That is a "Choice". And we also know that some women CHOOSE not to carry a conception to full term. That too is her CHOICE.

    So in the case where a conception is brought to full term...both mommy and daddy...are indeed responsible for its well being...for at least 18 years. But if you're a parent...sometimes that responsibility never goes away. Some children are born with special challenges that will prevent them from being independent. That will be a lifetime of support required from both mommy and daddy...be they together or not.

    But in the end...A woman who conceives...has the legal right to determine the fate of the conception within the boundaries of the law.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    Well, there is nothing like simple assertion for proving utter nonsense, is there? Enslaving women is no man's business.
    It's either ok to own another person as property, or it's not. We all play by the same rules. Equality et-all.

    If owning another person is ok, then abortion is ok, and so is enslaving women.

    If owning another person is not ok, then enslaving women is not ok, but neither is abortion.

    #logic

  9. #519
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    But can you accept that a man was just convicted of murder for killing an unborn child?

    You can only "murder" a "person".

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/aborti...s-w-393-a.html
    He wasn't convicted of murder

    He was plead to several charges (ex mail fraud, etc) none of which were murder
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #520
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It's either ok to own another person as property, or it's not. We all play by the same rules. Equality et-all.

    If owning another person is ok, then abortion is ok, and so is enslaving women.

    If owning another person is not ok, then enslaving women is not ok, but neither is abortion.

    #logic
    The unborn are not a person

    #fact
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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