View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

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  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #481
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Repeating the dumbest post I ever read on this forum does not make it any wiser. And I didn't take your words out of context. I quoted your post and addressed it.

    I'll address it again since you didn't understand the first time.

    Excluding cases were either the man or the woman is incapable of producing a child, pregnancy is always a risk of sex. That makes having a child consensual even if unintended.
    I get what Excon is saying. I get what you're saying. However, the language by Excon is...well, not technically correct...and your post not isn't "technically correct.

    Men and women who have sex can agree that a sexual event is intended for pleasure only...and not for conception. But when the "unintended" happens there is an order of events.

    First...fertilization...then a zygote, then a blastocyst, then an embryo, then a non-viable fetus, then a variably developed fetus...then fully mature fetus ready to give birth to.

    Consequently...

    Ex's comment should have been..."consent to sex isn't consent to conception".

    Your claim "Excluding cases were either the man or the woman is incapable of producing a child, pregnancy is always a risk of sex"....should therefore read..."That makes conception consensual even if unintended."

    My point is: At the very most...having sex would only make conception consensual...not "having children". And I'm not implying that I agree with that. I'm only trying to bring out the technical point.

    Ultimately...current laws are....

    A woman, can at will, without the consent of a man, have an abortion, of course complying with the boundaries of Roe v. Wade's viability provision. There is no standing legal recourse for a man that would automatically render her "choice" impotent.

    My question to you is: I see your "exclusions" but, how does your "that makes conception consensual even if unintended" more true than Excon's version?

    The fact is, and nothing new to you, is that sex is performed many, many more times for pleasure than procreation.

    Because of the fact the fact sex is performed many, many more times for pleasure...then I believe that unless a man and woman have declared that they are purposely trying to achieve having a pregnancy, that sex is always regarded as an act of pleasure. Not the other way around.

    Therefore the more intended consequence of having sex is to have an orgasm...or two...etc. And that an unintended pregnancy...is not consensual (or by agreement), but rather an unwanted consequence.

    How that unwanted or unintended consequence is managed - at present day - and allowable by law - the woman can decide the fate of that conception...all by herself...within the boundaries of the law.

  2. #482
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post


    Doesn't matter.
    Consent to sex, is not consent to children.

    .
    I agree. Consent to sex is consent to sex. It not consent to continuing a pregnancy and giving childbirth.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  3. #483
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Your claim "Excluding cases were either the man or the woman is incapable of producing a child, pregnancy is always a risk of sex"....should therefore read..."That makes conception consensual even if unintended."
    Which is about as silly as saying that by getting into an automobile, because there is always a risk of getting into an accident, getting into that accident is therefore consensual. So let's leave those people who get into traffic accidents bleeding by the side of the road, they knew the risks and still did it.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #484
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Actually in the article I posted the state was suing the sperm donor for child support so that the state would not have to support the child.

    The mother had a signed a contract that the sperm donor had given up parental rights.
    The basis of the legal argument for the lesbian mother's case is "public policy" which requires parents maintain financial responsibility for their children. The "sperm donor" is the male half of that "parent" equation. Currently, the argument would go, he cannot sign away his parental responsibilities. That's why she is coming after him, since her same-sex ex-partner has no legal standing.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  5. #485
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    ?..

    Which is not the same thing as a court holding one responsible under archaic child support laws because it came from their loins.
    We have already seen where sperm donors have been held liable for support under these archaic laws.
    Not the same thing dude, and just shows how severely you are out of your depth in discussing this issue.
    Let me set the record straight.
    The state of Kansas did drop their case against the erm donor. He is not liable for child support since he gave up his parental rights.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  6. #486
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Entering your house does not produce a child for which you are financially liable for the next 18 years.
    It might if you come in and have sex with my daughter on the couch without my knowledge and in violation of my house rules. Which is a silly response to an even sillier comment.

    If you cannot understand a metaphorical example, that is not my problem. I did refer you back to the original "house on fire" analogy in my earlier post. Try that again, maybe it would help.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  7. #487
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Which is about as silly as saying that by getting into an automobile, because there is always a risk of getting into an accident, getting into that accident is therefore consensual. So let's leave those people who get into traffic accidents bleeding by the side of the road, they knew the risks and still did it.
    Its an assumed risk, yes, and is why I have both insurense and a small box in the trunk with everything from a quart of oil to a small 1st-aid kit. A small fire extinguisher is under the driver's seat, the Colt45 in the glove box.

    **** happens. Be prepaired.

  8. #488
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    It might if you come in and have sex with my daughter on the couch without my knowledge and in violation of my house rules.

    ..............

    Sorry, not trying to be disrespectful to any poster's comments...but that is funny, CA...what can I else can I say?

  9. #489
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    ..............

    Sorry, not trying to be disrespectful to any poster's comments...but that is funny, CA...what can I else can I say?
    No problem. It was meant to be; hence the follow-on "silly" explanation.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  10. #490
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    You keep making the same statement over and over again.
    Yeah, you keep asking the same questions, just in different ways. The answer will be the same in those cases.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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