View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

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  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #411
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    You hold up.
    Held.

    The argument is that she gets a choice which may burden him.
    That's not an argument, that's just a fact.

    That is not fair.
    Of course it is. The man deligates his authority in the matter to her with the act of sex. His sperm is legaly considered a gift. The only way a man can retain control is by refusing to deligate that power in the first place: abstonence.

    Even with a vasectomy and condoms there is still a small risk.

    If you don't want an outcome, don't assume the risk.

    If you give her the keys to your car she may wrek it. If you aren't ready to deal with that then don't give her the keys. Duh! Common sense.
    Last edited by Jerry; 09-14-13 at 06:36 PM.

  2. #412
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    No, you don't know that for a fact. Perhaps you speak from personal experience, so it's a fact for you, but that's not how it is for everyone.
    Please provide a counter-example in the USA where consensual sex is NOT under the control of the woman; i.e. where it is not up to her whether or not to require the man to use contraception.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    That's right it takes TWO. Yet only ONE gets to decide? Sorry does not fly.
    WTF?? How is it men don't get to decide? You think men, in general, have stronger urges for sex than women?

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Please provide a counter-example in the USA where consentual sex is NOT under the control of the woman; i.e. where it is not up to her whether or not to require the man to use contraception.
    Please don't spin my words into something I didn't say. I didn't say it's not up to the woman. I said it's up to both.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's not an argument, that's just a fact.

    Really dude? You really think you are saying something that isn't known?
    You don't understand that is stating the framework for which the following argument is based on and/or arguing against?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Of course it is.
    Of course it isn't fair. If it was there would be no complaints.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The man deligates his authority in the matter to her with the act of sex.
    No he doesn't.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    His sperm is legaly considered a gift.
    And as a gift it is all hers.
    He is not responsible for what she does with it. Nor should he ever be.
    Her choices should never effect him.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The only way a man can retain control is by refusing to deligate that power in the first place: abstonence.
    Doesn't matter.
    Consent to sex, is not consent to children.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Even with a vasectomy and condoms there is still a small risk.
    Irrelevant.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    And as a gift it is all hers.
    He is not responsible for what she does with it. Nor should he ever be.
    Her choices should never effect him.
    Until there's a child born from it, then there's 3 people involved.

    Consent to sex is consent to have a child.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    It's an issue that is far more complex than anything partisan hackery can cover.
    Not really. This argument stems from Conservatives' frustration over abortion. They [in general] prefer abortion would be outlawed; but failing miserably to accomplish that, they fall back on plan 'B' -- which is to punish the child (and the mother) because she can get an abortion and they are helpless to stop it.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Should a man have an absolute right to have his baby aborted?

    In the alternative, should he be granted relief from all legal responsibility if it is his clearly stated wish to abort but the woman decides not to?

    Let me preface my remarks with this disclaimer; I am Pro-Choice and I support a woman’s absolute right to choose to have an abortion for several reasons, including the fact it is the woman who must endure the pregnancy to carry the child to term, and then follows the lifelong responsibility to raise and care for any child born.

    The dilemma occurs when the woman unilaterally decides to have the baby, even when the male does not wish to accept that long-term responsibility.

    In a recent news report, a young man was so desperate not to have a child that he tricked his girlfriend into taking a morning after pill. Now I do not support or condone this action, but it does bring up the thesis issue for me…why does the male partner have no say in a decision to keep the baby?

    When a woman makes the unilateral decision to keep the baby this then compels lifelong legal and emotional obligations on the part of the unwilling father. This creates resentment and recriminations in both parties. By attempting to force the man to marry and/or support both her and the child this only serves to create a negative environment for all concerned, especially for any child to grow up in.

    Since we now have a simple method of aborting in the early stages of the first trimester, without needing an invasive surgery, why should the absolute choice to keep the baby reside with the mother? If it does, why can’t the man be legally relieved of further responsibility to both parties?

    I have offered several voting options, please pick and then explain what do you think? I am especially interested in arguments for why the woman has the sole right to keep the child while making the man permanently responsible.
    I voted yes. But my position is, as always, more complex.

    Men should have that right for as long as all options remain open to the woman. In other words, they have the same timeframe to make their respective decisions. The woman has time to consider what she will do if she cannot get support from the man.

    I am also open to conditional "paper abortions," dependent on paternity testing. The woman knows whether there's a risk it isn't his genetically, so she can make that decision whether it's a risk or not. However, this does NOT mean he can go back when the kid is 10, finds out it isn't his genetically, and sign away rights. At that point, he is a father to that kid, and the child's well-being must be considered at that point. It must be done under the same timeline as the above, and the test must be performed immediately upon birth.

    This all needs to be lined up with legally binding contracts that can be executed quickly with safeguards for both partners in the case of manipulation or avoidance of signature.

    I believe this because I do believe women have a unilateral right to their body which is simply a rule of the nature of human reproduction. Fair? No. But it's reality, and at present, there is no way to make reality fair.

    As such, the man should have a right to dictate the use of his finances, and his life, and how he reacts to a woman's unilateral decision. That is his right.

    The woman has every right to decide unilaterally keep the child, as long a she understands this does not entitle her to support from the man.

    I see all reproductive choices as a right; contraception, abortion, adopting out or in, keeping a child, etc. But a vital component of rights of choice is responsibility.

    To say women have an absolute right, but no responsibility, is to imply women are basically children, and men are just tools.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 09-14-13 at 06:51 PM.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    WTF?? How is it men don't get to decide? You think men, in general, have stronger urges for sex than women?
    Next time you ask a question where the answer has already been provided, please make sure you quote the entire comment. The answer was already provided to you in that quoted response, and the OP has also made the issue clear.

    If after all the discussion that has gone on you still remain confused, perhaps rereading will clarify it for you?
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  10. #420
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Kinda sucks to see so many guys in favor of abdicating their responsibility. I'd starve before I let my kid starve. It's also curious to see pro-choicers being ok with financially coercing a woman into making the "choice" he wants her to make.
    Last edited by X Factor; 09-14-13 at 07:03 PM.

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