View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

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  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #351
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    In reference to pro life/pro choice, I believe I fall somewhere in between because I would be pro life in theory if I thought it was at all feasible in today's times. I would never want to subject a child to a life of torture and abuse because he/she was born of a parent who did not want the child. THAT is the only reason why I accept the fact that there are abortions at all.

    Even if there was a 100% effective way to prevent a pregnancy, the people who did NOT use it and got pregnant anyways are just demonstrating their irresponsibility. It is like a necessary evil IMO.
    The regulars on the abortion board know I have very hard views on the topic - BUT in THREE regards.

    1. I totally support the right of a woman to have and abortion.

    2. I intensely oppose any pressure being put on the woman to abortion or to not abortion. This thread is men advocating a legal right to pressure women to abort.

    3. In my opinion, if a person makes a child they are responsible for that child totally. Doesn't matter whether the child was planned or not, an accident or not nor any other excuse or reason. That responsibility is not only economic, not just child support. But ALL the obligations a parent has towards their child. In my opinion, a parent must even put the child's life before their own. It means total interaction and parenting the children and the THOUSANDS of hours (sometimes quite frustrating) and all the sacrifices required to do so.

    I INTENSELY oppose ANY bioparent being able to dump a child and any/all excuses to do so. IF a man or woman is not willing to do so should that happen, get a vascetomy, tubal, use every contraceptive there is or don't have sex etc.

    In my opinion, I do NOT see having sex as consent to having a child. BUT I do see total obligation to a child once born by BOTH. The reason "consent" is NOT relevant in my view, is that overall people have piles of ethical and legal obligations just because circumstantially they have them, not because the person consented to such obligation and duty.

  2. #352
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    As a man you accept the realities of the "out" that is available to you. You don't whine and run because you dropped the ball
    As a woman, if you don't want to get pregnant, don't spread your legs. Why are you being so biased?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #353
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    And she can't put him inside her without his approval.
    And when you get down to the nitty gritty as I previously stated, she is solely responsible for what she willing allows into her body.
    You can't change that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Who know why you can't comprehend that it's a mutual consensual choice? Regardless, it is. Both make the choice. Both are responsible.

    No one said it wasn't mutual. That doesn't change the fact that she is solely responsible for what she willingly allows into her body.


    [QUOTE=Sheik Yerbuti;1062314523]So is the guy. He knows the consequences for putting it in and he's making the choice to do so anyway. If she gets pregnant, he bears the responsibility for his choices.And again we are past that point. It is irrelevant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Don't worry, I'll let you know when you get to decide when I am past a point.
    Irrelevant as we are past that point to the point where a choice gets to be made.
    He should be given the same effective choice.
    Even under your assertion of equal responsibility, her getting to make a choice which can burden him then makes it an unequal equation.
    That unequalness needs to be rectified, whether you want to admit it or not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Which will be the case when he carries a fetus.
    Wrong!
    It is unfair as it is and it is going to change. It is nothing more than a matter of time.
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  4. #354
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Stop with the nonsense Jerry.
    A clump can be a compacted mass. It doesn't have to be though.



    clump (klmp)
    n.
    1. A clustered mass; a lump: clumps of soil.
    2. A thick grouping, as of trees or bushes.
    3. A heavy dull sound; a thud.
    clump - definition of clump by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


    clump (klŭmp),
    To form into clusters, small aggregations, or groups.
    [A.S. clympre, a lump]
    clump - definition of clump in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
    A zygote is a single-cell organism. An embrio and fetus are a molti-celled organisms. Easy stuff.

    All you're saying is that there are moltiple cells. Well, you're right, its a molti-celled organism.

    I don't see how that harms my argument, or helps yours, though.

  5. #355
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The regulars on the abortion board know I have very hard views on the topic - BUT in THREE regards.

    1. I totally support the right of a woman to have and abortion.

    2. I intensely oppose any pressure being put on the woman to abortion or to not abortion. This thread is men advocating a legal right to pressure women to abort.

    3. In my opinion, if a person makes a child they are responsible for that child totally. Doesn't matter whether the child was planned or not, an accident or not nor any other excuse or reason. That responsibility is not only economic, not just child support. But ALL the obligations a parent has towards their child. In my opinion, a parent must even put the child's life before their own. It means total interaction and parenting the children and the THOUSANDS of hours (sometimes quite frustrating) and all the sacrifices required to do so.

    I INTENSELY oppose ANY bioparent being able to dump a child and any/all excuses to do so. IF a man or woman is not willing to do so should that happen, get a vascetomy, tubal, use every contraceptive there is or don't have sex etc.

    In my opinion, I do NOT see having sex as consent to having a child. BUT I do see total obligation to a child once born by BOTH. The reason "consent" is NOT relevant in my view, is that overall people have piles of ethical and legal obligations just because circumstantially they have them, not because the person consented to such obligation and duty.
    Yes but even with abortion, birth control and adoption, there are still parents who don't care about their kids out there raising them in bad conditions. There is just absolutely no way to control for all factors involved in these complicated situations.

    This is just one reason why I agree with your premise about the law ONLY giving regard to what is best for the CHILD, who is the only truly innocent party in the situation.

    Edit: Oops, that was you that said that wasn't it?
    Last edited by ChrisL; 09-14-13 at 03:38 PM.

  6. #356
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    And those laws came about because of personal beliefs.
    Which should be removed from the equation. And will be, with time.
    All laws begin with personal beliefs. Yet abortion restrictions also have a protective function consistent with what was stated earlier.

  7. #357
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I don't see how that harms my argument, or helps yours, though.
    Interesting!
    You say I said it wasn't an organism because I called it a clump of cells.
    That was your argument. It was wrong. So of course it harmed your argument.

    You also argued, "It is never a clump.", which we also know is wrong.
    Of course it has harmed your argument. You were and are wrong in what you asserted.

    Should I go on?

    This theory of yours of killing vs murder is ridiculous on it surface.
    It is only murder when the killing is illegal, which is defined by law. Not you.
    Which further harms your argument, as you are wrong.

    Not only that, but even under your idea of "justification", you ignore the personal justification one has for aborting.
    As that is personal, it is none of your business.
    Further harming your argument.

    You really have nothing.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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  8. #358
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    All laws begin with personal beliefs. Yet abortion restrictions also have a protective function consistent with what was stated earlier.
    And like I said, changes happen with time. The law needs to keep up.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  9. #359
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    And when you get down to the nitty gritty as I previously stated, she is solely responsible for what she willing allows into her body.
    You can't change that.
    It's a meaningless point since the man is equally responsible for what he puts in her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    No one said it wasn't mutual. That doesn't change the fact that she is solely responsible for what she willingly allows into her body.
    Just as he is equally responsible for what he puts in her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Irrelevant as we are past that point to the point where a choice gets to be made.
    He should be given the same effective choice.
    Even under your assertion of equal responsibility, her getting to make a choice which can burden him then makes it an unequal equation.
    That unequalness needs to be rectified, whether you want to admit it or not.
    There is nothing to rectify since the man knows the risks going into it. Since women have the additional burden of carrying a fetus to term, they get the additional choice to terminate it where the man doesn't get that choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post

    Which will be the case when he carries a fetus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Wrong!
    It is unfair as it is and it is going to change. It is nothing more than a matter of time.
    It's going to change?? Men are going to start carries the fetus?

    You're deluded, nothing is going to change. Men are not going to get pregnant ... men are not going to get the option to evade their financial responsibilities. You're only chance is that abortion will be outlawed, but aside from being highly unlikely, you will never be able to prevent a woman from aborting a fetus she doesn't want.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    And like I said, changes happen with time. The law needs to keep up.
    You ought to coordinate a march in Washington ... the Million Deadbeat March!


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