View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

Voters
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  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #261
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And in MOST cases, the potential father agrees with the mothers decision, so your point is destroyed using your own argument
    No Sangha, the point being made was that even when people are trying to have a child there is only a 20% chance per month of success. Thus, people engaging in recreational sex do not automatically expect a child to result even if they are doing it "unsafely."

    Yet a woman has absolute control over voluntary sexual activity and can take many steps to reduce that "20% chance" to nearly zero.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 09-14-13 at 12:16 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  2. #262
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    That only comes into play if there is a child.
    Of course it does, but then, I was responding to where you said, "men should have the option of "opting-out" of responsibility for the woman's absolute choice." That implies there is a child, otherwise, there's nothing to "opt out" from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Then, apparently, you ignore the issues I raise about being forced to deal with unwanted family responsibilities.
    Of course I ignore it. It's irrelevant. As I said, the needs of the child outweigh the needs of the man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    The woman has the absolute ability in a voluntary sexual encounter to prevent an unwanted birth from occurring. She can limit such activity to "safe" periods of the month, add contraceptives and require the male wear one too. She can also purchase morning after pills and take one after each sexual encounter.
    That's the benefit of being a woman. As was said earlier, when men can get pregnant, they should be entitled to those same benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    In the unlikely event she still get's pregnant somehow, she can seek help at any abortion counseling center. SHE has absolute control over the situation. The man in all this becomes a (nervous? frightened?) bystander with no control at all.
    Of course she has absolute control. She is the one who is absolutely pregnant. It's her body. Men are the bystander at that point. Once there's a child, both are responsible to raise the child.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    A "child" never enters the picture until the final decision whether or not to abort is made in favor of NOT aborting. Even then, it is in the best interests of the child not to have to deal with a parent who hates it.
    The best thing for the child is to be supported. Support comes in many ways. In the case you describe, where a man hates his own child, it's still better to receive financial support, if nothing else, than it is to receive nothing at all.

  3. #263
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    ... Now you say if separated from the mother, the fetus has no chance of survival. I would suggest that neither would her arm if she chose to dissect and discard it.
    An arm is not a life and neither is a non viable fetus.
    The non viable fetus only exsists because of the life forces of the pregnant woman.
    If she dies it cannot survive.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  4. #264
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Not the issue
    Okay...let's spice up your scenario.

    Guy's out on the town

    Guy meets girl

    They bull**** around abit and start discussing going to her place

    The girl asked the guy..."are you married", he says "No."

    He lies....

    They get to her place and hop in bed and he says, "are you protected"...which since he's married that's not really something he'd ask...but....

    She said yes, but lies...

    Kaboom...a pregnancy occurs as a result of these two liars have a wild romp

    What do believe should be the legal outcome of that pregnancy be?

    __________________________________________

    TD...doesn't this issue really revolve around something similar to following?:

    Most pro-choice will say that a woman is not giving automatic consent to conception when she has sex. If that's true, then why is a man legally and financially bound to a conception if one occur... especially if the man also didn't give consent to conception when having sex.

    The following has been scenario is suggested by numerous men...

    What if there was a law...similar to Roe v. Wade...in which it states that in the case of an unwanted pregnancy by a man...and not the woman. Then during the period of non-viability of the embryo or fetus, that the sperm donor can legally declare that he doesn't want to be a father and will have the CHOICE to waiver out of any responsibility for the pregnancy or a child given birth to.

    Now, since the declaration must be made during the non-viability period...then the woman can decide if she wants to have an abortion so that she herself doesn't have the burdens involved....or she "chooses" to carry the embryo or fetus to full-term.

    If the woman choose abortion...then he pays half.

    Now the above sounds simple enough, however.....

    What might be the objections of a woman for such a law being enacted?
    Last edited by Removable Mind; 09-14-13 at 12:11 PM.

  5. #265
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Of course it does, but then, I was responding to where you said, "men should have the option of "opting-out" of responsibility for the woman's absolute choice." That implies there is a child, otherwise, there's nothing to "opt out" from.


    Of course I ignore it. It's irrelevant. As I said, the needs of the child outweigh the needs of the man.
    It is completely relevant. Children are not born in a vacuum. A child has to deal with the mother's emotions about the disinterested father, her own second thoughts about having a baby under such circumstances, and the child's own emotions about having a father who wants no part of it. Something NONE would have to deal with if the woman made an informed decision to accept full and sole responsibility for that decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    The best thing for the child is to be supported. Support comes in many ways. In the case you describe, where a man hates his own child, it's still better to receive financial support, if nothing else, than it is to receive nothing at all.
    The child will get all the support it needs from the parent who chose to bring it into the world...alone. That should be a part of her decision making process, can she do it on her own. If not, then abort. Or if she is and has always been Pro-Life, have no sex until marriage.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  6. #266
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    An arm is not a life and neither is a non viable fetus.
    The non viable fetus only exsists because of the life forces of the pregnant woman.
    If she dies it cannot survive.
    1. This is the central point of the issue. A fetus pre 22 weeks is not a life in your mind, it is in mine. Can we settle this with a scientific testing of tissue that makes up the 21 week old fetus? I'll place all my marbles on a bet that that tissue is living.

    2. You just equated the "nonviable" fetus to an appendage. Really?

    3. Would you find it rational to open a medical clinic with the Idea that the dr. would be cutting off perfectly good arms and disposing of them, having public advocacy groups advertise and promote this idea, and further try to convince women it is in their best interest to consider this as an option that might improve their life?
    Last edited by johndylan1; 09-14-13 at 12:39 PM.

  7. #267
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    No Sangha, the point being made was that even when people are trying to have a child there is only a 20% chance per month of success. Thus, people engaging in recreational sex do not automatically expect a child to result even if they are doing it "unsafely."

    Yet a woman has absolute control over voluntary sexual activity and can take many steps to reduce that "20% chance" to nearly zero.
    And a man has absolute control over voluntary sexual activity and can take many steps to reduce that "20% chance" to nearly zero.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #268
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And a man has absolute control over voluntary sexual activity and can take many steps to reduce that "20% chance" to nearly zero.
    Wrong again, with your one-track "I can reverse everything back on you" methodology. Men, especially younger males, have limited control over their sex drives.

    On the other hand women have all the control. They chose who to sleep with from the many continuous offers men make, and then have complete control over how things are going to go once they make that choice. All the male cares about in a recreational sexual encounter is "completion" (hopefully while satisfying the woman too), so if the female insists he use protection he WILL use protection. Even then as an after-option, pro-life or pro-choice, a woman has the morning after pill.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  9. #269
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Wrong again, with your one-track "I can reverse everything back on you" methodology. Men, especially younger males, have limited control over their sex drives.

    On the other hand women have all the control. They chose who to sleep with from the many continuous offers men make, and then have complete control over how things are going to go once they make that choice. All the male cares about in a recreational sexual encounter is "completion" (hopefully while satisfying the woman too), so if the female insists he use protection he WILL use protection. Even then as an after-option, pro-life or pro-choice, a woman has the morning after pill.
    That is just nonsense.

    Women have a sex drive too, and both men and women have equal rights and ability to make decisions about their voluntary behavior.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And a man has absolute control over voluntary sexual activity and can take many steps to reduce that "20% chance" to nearly zero.
    I'm not sure if I remember, did you use the voluntary sexual activity line over on the thread discussing homosexual choice? Just curious.

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