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Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    Votes: 44 49.4%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    Votes: 18 20.2%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    Votes: 19 21.3%
  • I Don't Know.

    Votes: 5 5.6%

  • Total voters
    89
ok I accept that, thats very good you know your stuff.

so this would be a liberty /property right being exercised would it not?

A liberty, yes. A property right, no, because her body is not property-- not even her own.
 
then who has control over your own body then?

You do. You have control over it, you have authority over it, but you do not own it, because humans are not property. Your corpse becomes property of your estate after you die, but that is the only case in which a person's body is anybody's property. You can not sell your body.
 
You do. You have control over it, you have authority over it, but you do not own it, because humans are not property. Your corpse becomes property of your estate after you die, but that is the only case in which a person's body is anybody's property. You can not sell your body.


well what is authority then?
 
That you now lie about what I said does nothing more than to reveal just how vacuous your position is.

I have a position? I thought I was just running round knocking down bull**** arguments. I don't really care who says it or what "side" it's made on, if the argument is bull**** I'll attack it.

I neither said it was in the Constitution nor wanted to say that, as you falsely portray.

Yes you did, post 607, you said your authority for abortion comes from the Constitution, and when asked to cite that part of the constitution you referenced Roe v. Wade, not the Constitution.

I was asked what provides women the authority to get an abortion and I answered, the U.S. Constitution.

And that's a wrong answer. The Constitution does not give you the authority to have an abortion.
 
well what is authority then?

It is the ability to make unilateral decisions affecting an object or person.

Compare the difference between ownership of a dog and parental authority. You own a dog; you do not own a child.
 
And that's a wrong answer. The Constitution does not give you the authority to have an abortion.

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.


It absolutely does.
 
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.


It absolutely does.
That has nothing to do with abortion. That's about slavery. Try again.
 
That has nothing to do with abortion. That's about slavery. Try again.

Read it again. Gestation is a service. Forced gestation against a woman's will is involuntary servitude. The abortion argument is about slavery, whether you want to admit it or not.
 
From my point of view this was not an issue until a verifiable paternity test with a very low error rate was available. Before this is was a he said/she said and if the man had any pull at all he could get out of it. Now that such a test exists we have this as an issue. From my point of view once a child is born the parents of that child should have a legal obligation for supporting that child enforceable by penalties including imprisonment in extreme cases. If the man is such a screw up that they are not really able to even take care of his self properly then his rights can be severed but at the cost that he has a no contact order placed against the women and the child and the woman again to the man. Violation of such an order will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If the man had more than the means to take care of himself or whatever family then he would be under obligation to provide for the child by court order but with a right to have the expenses audited by a court every 3 years. It would apply until the child has reached age 19 this policy would apply to offspring done outside of marriage and where he is not married. If he was married then the child would be able to receive benefits until age 25 under certain circumstances.
 
Read it again. Gestation is a service. Forced gestation against a woman's will is involuntary servitude. The abortion argument is about slavery, whether you want to admit it or not.
Slavery was about slavery, not young white teen sluts from the burbs getting abortions. But hey you want to talk about slavery, let's talk about slavery.

****
My Body, My Choice, is an argument based on a false premis.
The premise is: "It's my body".

This can be interpreted one of 2 ways, depending on what is meant by "my" or "mine":
  1. The unborn is literally another part of the woman's body, just like the woman's kidney, tooth or arm.
  2. The unborn is the woman's property.
  • To the first interpretation: The unborn is literally another part of the woman's body, just like the woman's kidney, tooth or arm:
All of the parts of a woman's body share the exact same DNA. The unborn has a distinct and unique DNA. All of the parts of a woman's body are connected by a central nervis and circulatory system. The unborn is not connected to the mother's circulatory or nervis system. The unborn has it's own systems, circulatory, nervis, reproductive, respiratory, etc.

  • To the second interpretation: The unborn is the woman's property:
When one person owns another, this is called slavery, which is illegal and invalid.

Therefore, it's not her body, it's her child's body, and while she remains the obvious custodial parent, she is still bound by all ethical standards every parent is already bound to with regard to caring for children under their charge. These standards are governed by Public Policy and Law, which therefore makes the matter every voter's and tax-payer's business.

I am a voter, I pay taxes, therefore I have a Constitutional right to an authorative voice. No single voter or tax-payer decides any legal issue arbitrarily, but collectively, and nothing diminishes my contribution.
 
It is the ability to make unilateral decisions affecting an object or person.

Compare the difference between ownership of a dog and parental authority. You own a dog; you do not own a child.


so if I have authority ,then where does that authority come from, it does not come from the constitution , because the constitution does not grant or give any authority to the people, it only places limitations on government.

authority which comes from government is a privilege, ..........so authority which does not come from government is a right.

so authority is a right............. when government is prohibited from creating law which infringe on that authority.
 
Read it again.
Why, did you edit?

*checks*

Nope, your post still says the same lie.

Let me know when you edit out all that bull**** about slavery so an adult conversation can occur.
 
so if I have authority ,then where does that authority come from, it does not come from the constitution , because the constitution does not grant or give any authority to the people, it only places limitations on government.

authority which comes from government is a privilege, ..........so authority which does not come from government is a right.

so authority is a right............. when government is prohibited from creating law which infringe on that authority.
Another consequence of their argument is that women had no authority over their bodies until the Constitution gave it to them. So when the day comes tht the Constitution joins history, so will a woman's authority over her body. I'm sure Obama will have free burkas to hand out.
 
Except he never confessed to murder, you almost have a point. :roll:

Bull****. He factually confessed to murder.

He committed murder. He is factually a murderer.

Whatever he may have plead to, he was charged with murder and in his confession he confirmed he had done exactly that.
 
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Slavery was about slavery, not young white teen sluts from the burbs getting abortions. But hey you want to talk about slavery, let's talk about slavery.

You keep repeating this, but you're not addressing the argument that forcing a woman to gestate is forcing her into servitude-- forcing her to labor against her will. Until you can demonstrate that forcing a woman to gestate is somehow not forcing her to provide a service against her will, we are still talking about slavery. Using misogynistic language to try to make this about other peoples' sexual behavior that you disapprove of is irrelevant, except to the extent that it reveals your true motivations for imposing such conditions upon free women.

My Body, My Choice, is an argument based on a false premis.
The premise is: "It's my body".

This can be interpreted one of 2 ways, depending on what is meant by "my" or "mine":
  1. The unborn is literally another part of the woman's body, just like the woman's kidney, tooth or arm.
  2. The unborn is the woman's property.

Or, three, that the unborn's survival and growth is directly and solely dependent upon the function of the woman's womb, and her entire body, which she has every right to deny the unborn the use of. You obsess over the fetus but you keep deliberately ignoring the matter of where the fetus is growing and how. Women would not have the right to kill fetuses that were growing in incubators, any more than anyone would have the right to kill a fetus that was growing in anyone else's body.

I am a voter, I pay taxes, therefore I have a Constitutional right to an authorative voice. No single voter or tax-payer decides any legal issue arbitrarily, but collectively, and nothing diminishes my contribution.

The fact that you pay your taxes gives you absolutely no authority over the bodies and medical decisions of other free people.
 
well what is authority then?

authority n. permission, a right coupled with the power to do an act or order others to act. Often one person gives another authority to act, as an employer to an employee, a principal to an agent, a corporation to its officers, or governmental empowerment to perform certain functions. There are different types of authority including "apparent authority" when a principal gives an agent various signs of authority to make others believe he or she has authority, "express authority" or "limited authority" which spell out exactly what authority is granted (usually a written set of instructions), "implied authority" which flows from the position one holds, and "general authority" which is the broad power to act for another.

authority legal definition of authority. authority synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.
 
Let me know when you edit out all that bull**** about slavery so an adult conversation can occur.

You keep asserting that it's bull****, but you still can't refute the argument. If it's bull****, why can't you refute it?
 
You keep repeating this, but you're not addressing the argument that forcing a woman to gestate is forcing her into servitude-- forcing her to labor against her will.
Man we're over 640 posts into this, what exactly do you expect me to say that hasn't already been said a few times on this thread? Do you want me to just go back and quote myself? Bring something new to the table, something fresh.
 
so if I have authority ,then where does that authority come from, it does not come from the constitution , because the constitution does not grant or give any authority to the people, it only places limitations on government.

The Constitution does not grant rights, it recognizes them. In this case, it recognizes that people have the right to decide whom and how they will serve, and the right to be free from compulsion or coercion to the contrary. To put it simply, the legal right to abortion extends from the same human right to life and liberty that everyone else enjoys. Government can legally prohibit abortion, just as it once legally permitted one human being to own another, but it cannot morally do so.
 
Until you can demonstrate that forcing a woman to gestate is somehow not forcing her to provide a service against her will, we are still talking about slavery.
Bro I'm not forcing anyone to do a goddamn thing so why don't you sit down over there have a beer and chill the **** out. You want to come in here braking forum rules insulting me for **** I didn't even do. Check yourself.
 
Do you want me to just go back and quote myself? Bring something new to the table, something fresh.

If you ever actually refuted my argument, then yes, feel free to quote yourself doing so. Until then, you're just repeating the same unsupported assertion ad nauseam in the hopes that eventually I will give up and go away and allow you to continue advocating for the enslavement of women unchallenged.
 
Bro I'm not forcing anyone to do a goddamn thing so why don't you sit down over there have a beer and chill the **** out. You want to come in here braking forum rules insulting me for **** I didn't even do. Check yourself.

I haven't insulted you yet. And I'm perfectly calm. You're not enslaving women, but you are advocating that the government do so. Morally, there is no difference.
 
You obsess over the fetus but you keep deliberately ignoring the matter of where the fetus is growing and how.
I haven't ignored a thing. We were debating a specific point. You don't have to be interested in that, that's cool, you can take things in your own direction, no problem. So you want to talk about slavery, great, start be quoting where SCOTUS equated abortion with slavery and shut down abortion bans on those grounds.

Oh wait, SCOTUS didn't do that, right, because abortion has nothing whatsoever to do with slavery. Awww so much for that.
 
I haven't insulted you yet. And I'm perfectly calm. You're not enslaving women, but you are advocating that the government do so. Morally, there is no difference.
You truly have no idea who you're talking to or what you're talking about. Seriously.
 
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