View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

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  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #251
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    (Minnie, I added you to provide support for your points using the links to medical procedures below)


    ...

    First, as has been stated by other members, not all sex leads to pregnancy. That's because a woman is not always "ripe" for pregancy. A woman is well-aware of her monthly cycle and can pretty much avoid sex when she is at greatest risk of unwanted pregnancy. Remember, the woman is in control of whether to have sex or not...
    No, a woman is not always aware of her monthy cycle.

    Some women , especially those who do not have regular periods ( women with PCOS for example) have no idea when ovulation occurs/will occur.


    If you don't have regular cycles or have recently been on hormonal birth control, you may have trouble knowing when you ovulate. The day you ovulate during your monthly cycle is unique to each woman, and it can vary from month to month, even when everything is normal.


    Discovery Health "Can you get pregnant any time in your monthly cycle?"
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  2. #252
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Ummm, this is not about what's best for the man. It's about what's best for the child.
    That only comes into play if there is a child. Then, apparently, you ignore the issues I raise about being forced to deal with unwanted family responsibilities. It is one thing to marry and expect to have a child. Personal religious morality notwithstanding, it is quite another thing to engage in extramarital sex and suddenly find yourself burdened with a child.

    The woman has the absolute ability in a voluntary sexual encounter to prevent an unwanted birth from occurring. She can limit such activity to "safe" periods of the month, add contraceptives and require the male wear one too. She can also purchase morning after pills and take one after each sexual encounter.

    In the unlikely event she still get's pregnant somehow, she can seek help at any abortion counseling center. SHE has absolute control over the situation. The man in all this becomes a (nervous? frightened?) bystander with no control at all.

    A "child" never enters the picture until the final decision whether or not to abort is made in favor of NOT aborting. Even then, it is in the best interests of the child not to have to deal with a parent who hates it.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  3. #253
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    I highlighted the relevant part ...

    ... Every birth includes a male sperm donor. The only difference is the method employed make the donation.
    Very true.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  4. #254
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    No because most states require that that the doctor determine if the fetus is viable on a fetus 22 weeks or more gestation before an abortion is performed.

    If you look at the Kansas abortion stats they ask if the fetus is viable.

    http://www.kdheks.gov/hci/abortion_sum/08itop1.pdf
    If ones business is to provide abortions, I'm not sure I'd trust that judgment on viability as it is a clear conflict of interest and is subject to the bias of that so called DR.'s investigation. Secondly, inviability is an artificial justification, viability is not determinative of potential life, life already exists. Is that life dependant? Yes. Is that life distinct from the mother? Yes. Now you say if separated from the mother, the fetus has no chance of survival. I would suggest that neither would her arm if she chose to dissect and discard it.

  5. #255
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    That only comes into play if there is a child. Then, apparently, you ignore the issues I raise about being forced to deal with unwanted family responsibilities. It is one thing to marry and expect to have a child. Personal religious morality notwithstanding, it is quite another thing to engage in extramarital sex and suddenly find yourself burdened with a child.

    The woman has the absolute ability in a voluntary sexual encounter to prevent an unwanted birth from occurring. She can limit such activity to "safe" periods of the month, add contraceptives and require the male wear one too. She can also purchase morning after pills and take one after each sexual encounter.

    In the unlikely event she still get's pregnant somehow, she can seek help at any abortion counseling center. SHE has absolute control over the situation. The man in all this becomes a (nervous? frightened?) bystander with no control at all.

    A "child" never enters the picture until the final decision whether or not to abort is made in favor of NOT aborting. Even then, it is in the best interests of the child not to have to deal with a parent who hates it.
    But it's not in the childs best interest to not have both parents financially supporting it, even if one or both hates it
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #256
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    No, a woman is not always aware of her monthy cycle.

    Some women , especially those who do not have regular periods ( women with PCOS for example) have no idea when ovulation occurs/will occur.

    Discovery Health "Can you get pregnant any time in your monthly cycle?"
    Granted, that "some" women may not be able to time their exact periods. However your own article citation states:

    ...No health or age concerns and perfect timing of sex before you ovulate and you still only have about a 20% chance of concieving in any given month.
    ...and that is when you are TRYING to get pregnant. In any case MOST women are aware of their cycles so my point still stands.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  7. #257
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Granted, that "some" women may not be able to time their exact periods. However your own article citation states:



    ...and that is when you are TRYING to get pregnant. In any case MOST women are aware of their cycles so my point still stands.
    And in MOST cases, the potential father agrees with the mothers decision, so your point is destroyed using your own argument
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #258
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    But it's not in the childs best interest to not have both parents financially supporting it, even if one or both hates it
    This is not a pro-life vs pro-choice argument Sangha. The right to abort is a given, whether you agree with it or not.

    Thus THIS discussion is about responsibility after a woman makes a unilateral decision to keep the child. Currently she is assured of forcing the male to pay for her decision financially for at least 18 years, and emotionally for the rest of their lives.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  9. #259
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    ...

    Finally, I would like to point out that during the first nine weeks of the pregnancy there are non-surgical MEDICAL methods of aborting the developing fetus. That means there is time to inform the male, find out how he feels about things, and if he does NOT wish "marriage and family" the female can assess the situation and simply take some medicine to induce the abortion. No invasive surgery required.

    ....
    I would just like to point out that 9 weeks is 9 weeks gestation which really means 7 weeks since conception.
    Gestation is counted from the first day of the period. That means 7 weeks from the time the egg was fertiled . Most women do not suspect they are pregnant until they miss their period.
    If a woman is regular a couple of weeks will pass before she misses her period . So most likly there will be less than 30 days to inform the man and use the chemical abortion if they both decide they want to take that abortion route.
    Last edited by minnie616; 09-14-13 at 12:08 PM.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  10. #260
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    This is not a pro-life vs pro-choice argument Sangha. The right to abort is a given, whether you agree with it or not.

    Thus THIS discussion is about responsibility after a woman makes a unilateral decision to keep the child. Currently she is assured of forcing the male to pay for her decision financially for at least 18 years, and emotionally for the rest of their lives.
    Yes, I understand it and think that it is the just way to deal with it.

    Under the law, both parents have just as much rights as the other. There's nothing unfair about the law
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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