View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

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  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #241
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Should a man have an absolute right to have his baby aborted?

    Sure, just as soon a man can get pregnant.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    I don't know about elsewhere, but in the state of Texas, there is an Affidavit of Voluntary Relinquishment of Parental Rights, which releases a father from all responsibilities and duties to the child. It's a long process, but if that's the route someone feels is best, it exists.
    I like how Conservatives' feel abortion should not be allowed ... but once born, they want an option out of personal responsibility to raise the child.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Should a man have an absolute right to have his baby aborted?

    In the alternative, should he be granted relief from all legal responsibility if it is his clearly stated wish to abort but the woman decides not to?

    Let me preface my remarks with this disclaimer; I am Pro-Choice and I support a woman’s absolute right to choose to have an abortion for several reasons, including the fact it is the woman who must endure the pregnancy to carry the child to term, and then follows the lifelong responsibility to raise and care for any child born.

    The dilemma occurs when the woman unilaterally decides to have the baby, even when the male does not wish to accept that long-term responsibility.

    In a recent news report, a young man was so desperate not to have a child that he tricked his girlfriend into taking a morning after pill. Now I do not support or condone this action, but it does bring up the thesis issue for me…why does the male partner have no say in a decision to keep the baby?

    When a woman makes the unilateral decision to keep the baby this then compels lifelong legal and emotional obligations on the part of the unwilling father. This creates resentment and recriminations in both parties. By attempting to force the man to marry and/or support both her and the child this only serves to create a negative environment for all concerned, especially for any child to grow up in.

    Since we now have a simple method of aborting in the early stages of the first trimester, without needing an invasive surgery, why should the absolute choice to keep the baby reside with the mother? If it does, why can’t the man be legally relieved of further responsibility to both parties?

    I have offered several voting options, please pick and then explain what do you think? I am especially interested in arguments for why the woman has the sole right to keep the child while making the man permanently responsible.
    Why are you even asking? it's just obvious, everyone should know that no one can tell you want to DO with your body unless you're unable to speak for yourself and that person making the decision has a relationship with you in some legally recognized fashion.
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  4. #244
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    But the reason for that is because the woman has to deal with a "procedure" on her body no matter what choice is made. The man does not have that burden. Either the child birth or an abortion can have negative consequences, so it is the woman who takes the risk. The only responsibility the man bears is a financial one, if he doesn't want to be involved in that child's life.

    I wish there was a way that the man could have more say in the matter. I would suggest that perhaps people discuss these things before they have sex, but then again what a mood killer THAT would be.
    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    When men start giving birth, I would support giving them the same control over their bodies that women have now.

    Anyone who doesn't want to be responsible for babies should stop having sex with women who can have babies.

    Pretty simple, eh?

    And the only 100% effective way that I know of to avoid making babies.

    If you play the game, be prepared to win and lose.
    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    In the USA abortion is not legal without limits.
    (Minnie, I added you to provide support for your points using the links to medical procedures below)


    The woman's absolute right to choose comes from HER absolute right to control over her own body. Thus, not only is the choice to abort within her control, but also whether or not to have sex and under what conditions she will allow it. The following support a man's right to avoid the responsibility of HER choice.

    First, as has been stated by other members, not all sex leads to pregnancy. That's because a woman is not always "ripe" for pregancy. A woman is well-aware of her monthly cycle and can pretty much avoid sex when she is at greatest risk of unwanted pregnancy. Remember, the woman is in control of whether to have sex or not.

    Second, (in voluntary sexual activity) the woman can always refuse to have sex unless the male conforms to her requirements. She decides if she wants to take contraceptives and/or if he must wear one himself before she will engage in the activity. Again, the woman is in control of whether to have sex or not.

    Third, in the event she does get pregnant she has the absolute right to decide whether to abort or not. This we all already know, whether we agree with abortion or not. It does not matter if the male wants to be a father or not, is willing to marry her or not; SHE has the final decision. Thus SHE gets to decide what happens to ALL parties (man, woman, and child) for the rest of their lives!

    Under our current system if a woman decides to have the baby the male is then obligated to financially support the child until it's 18th birthday. This also often carries with it the social onus of parental responsibility, i.e. both society at large as well as his unwanted family (woman and child) expect some emotional support; holding the father accountable if he is unwilling to provide it.

    There is intense social pressure to marry, or at least "take responsibility" as we see repeated in this thread over and over. This leads to anger, resentment, hatred of this unwanted burden. Such emotions then lead to domestic abuse, child abuse, alcoholism or drug abuse, etc., etc., etc. none of which is good for anyone caught in this situation, least of all the unwanted child.

    So not only are the initial consequences NOT clear, but people seem perfectly willing to ignore the very real consequences we see repeatedly when a couple is forced to deal with an unwanted child because of a unilateral decision made by the woman. Remember, it is only the WOMAN who has the absolute right to choose.

    Finally, I would like to point out that during the first nine weeks of the pregnancy there are non-surgical MEDICAL methods of aborting the developing fetus. That means there is time to inform the male, find out how he feels about things, and if he does NOT wish "marriage and family" the female can assess the situation and simply take some medicine to induce the abortion. No invasive surgery required.

    National Abortion Federation: Options for Pregnant Women: Abortion

    Abortion Procedures | American Pregnancy explores abortion

    Early Termination of Pregnancy | New York City Private Abortion Services - NYC - Safest Early Abortion Options | Early Options ®

    Men should have the option of "opting-out" of responsibility for the woman's absolute choice.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 09-14-13 at 11:11 AM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  5. #245
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    ....

    I'm not familiar with all state laws, but I would be surprised if there were laws currently allowing a male to avoid child support if the mother retains parental rights over a shared child. I suppose extreme financial hardship is a possibility, but his finances would be under continuous scrutiny.
    Some states do go after the bio father for child support.
    Here is one pretty bizarre case where the state of Kansas is going after a sperm donor for child support:

    TOPEKA, Kansas (AP) — A U.S. man who donated sperm to a lesbian couple after answering an online ad is fighting efforts by Kansas state authorities to suddenly force him to pay child support for the now 3-year-old girl, arguing that he and the women signed an agreement waiving all of his parental rights.

    <SNIP>

    Angela de Rocha, spokeswoman for the Kansas Department for Children and Families, said that when a single mother seeks benefits for a child, it's routine for the department to try to determine the child's paternity and require the father to make support payments to lessen the potential cost to taxpayers.

    ,SNIP>

    The Kansas Department for Children and Families filed a court petition against Marotta in October, asking that he be required to reimburse the state for the benefits and make future child support payments. Marotta is asking that the case be dismissed, arguing that he's not legally the child's father, only a sperm donor.
    read more:

    Kansas wants sperm donor to pay child support
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Do you even understand what viability means?

    Viaibilty means the abilty to live outside the woman's womb with or without medical help.

    If a pregnant dies a pre viable fetus will not suvive eeven if quickly removed and given the most advanced medical help.
    The pre viable fetus depends completly on the woman's life forces.

    Once a fetus becomes viabile if the woman dies it has a very good chance of surviving if quickly reoved and given an infant CPAP and neo natal unit if needed.

    Once born the infant is a person. Also it no longer completely dependent on the woman. Someone else...a nurse, the father, a grandparent an adoptive parent, a foster parent can feed and take of the infant.
    I absolutely understand what viability is. I say its somewhat subjective because it can not be quantified as an average length of time for two reasons:
    1. Every fetus develops at a different rate.
    2. We are not talking about happenstance, we are talking about an intentional act.

    So, that intentional act today (if today is the day before average viability), will be ok despite the individual state of development of this particular fetus. Is that right?

  7. #247
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    well if a woman has an unlimited ability to abort the pregnancy even if the man is willing to pay for the the child,
    the man ought to have a right to opt out of that financial burden



    He does have a way to opt out, all that he has to do is keep his penis in his pants.

    That shouldn't be too hard, eh?

    Anyone who plays the game should be prepared to win or lose.
    Last edited by shrubnose; 09-14-13 at 11:18 AM.

  8. #248
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Some states do go after the bio father for child support.
    Here is one pretty bizarre case where the state of Kansas is going after a sperm donor for child support:

    The Kansas Department for Children and Families filed a court petition against Marotta in October, asking that he be required to reimburse the state for the benefits and make future child support payments. Marotta is asking that the case be dismissed, arguing that he's not legally the child's father, only a sperm donor.
    read more:

    Kansas wants sperm donor to pay child support
    I highlighted the relevant part ...

    ... Every birth includes a male sperm donor. The only difference is the method employed make the donation.

  9. #249
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    (Minnie, I added you to provide support for your points using the links to medical procedures below)


    The woman's absolute right to choose comes from HER absolute right to control over her own body. Thus, not only is the choice to abort within her control, but also whether or not to have sex and under what conditions she will allow it. The following support a man's right to avoid the responsibility of HER choice.

    First, as has been stated by other members, not all sex leads to pregnancy. That's because a woman is not always "ripe" for pregancy. A woman is well-aware of her monthly cycle and can pretty much avoid sex when she is at greatest risk of unwanted pregnancy. Remember, the woman is in control of whether to have sex or not.

    Second, (in voluntary sexual activity) the woman can always refuse to have sex unless the male conforms to her requirements. She decides if she wants to take contraceptives and/or if he must wear one himself before she will engage in the activity. Again, the woman is in control of whether to have sex or not.

    Third, in the event she does get pregnant she has the absolute right to decide whether to abort or not. This we all already know, whether we agree with abortion or not. It does not matter if the male wants to be a father or not, is willing to marry her or not; SHE has the final decision. Thus SHE gets to decide what happens to ALL parties (man, woman, and child) for the rest of their lives!

    Under our current system if a woman decides to have the baby the male is then obligated to financially support the child until it's 18th birthday. This also often carries with it the social onus of parental responsibility, i.e. both society at large as well as his unwanted family (woman and child) expect some emotional support; holding the father accountable if he is unwilling to provide it.

    There is intense social pressure to marry, or at least "take responsibility" as we see repeated in this thread over and over. This leads to anger, resentment, hatred of this unwanted burden. Such emotions then lead to domestic abuse, child abuse, alcoholism or drug abuse, etc., etc., etc. none of which is good for anyone caught in this situation, least of all the unwanted child.

    So not only are the initial consequences NOT clear, but people seem perfectly willing to ignore the very real consequences we see repeatedly when a couple is forced to deal with an unwanted child because of a unilateral decision made by the woman. Remember, it is only the WOMAN who has the absolute right to choose.

    Finally, I would like to point out that during the first nine weeks of the pregnancy there are non-surgical MEDICAL methods of aborting the developing fetus. That means there is time to inform the male, find out how he feels about things, and if he does NOT wish "marriage and family" the female can assess the situation and simply take some medicine to induce the abortion. No invasive surgery required.

    National Abortion Federation: Options for Pregnant Women: Abortion

    Abortion Procedures | American Pregnancy explores abortion

    Early Termination of Pregnancy | New York City Private Abortion Services - NYC - Safest Early Abortion Options | Early Options ®

    Men should have the option of "opting-out" of responsibility for the woman's absolute choice.
    Ummm, this is not about what's best for the man. It's about what's best for the child.

  10. #250
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    I absolutely understand what viability is. I say its somewhat subjective because it can not be quantified as an average length of time for two reasons:
    1. Every fetus develops at a different rate.
    2. We are not talking about happenstance, we are talking about an intentional act.

    So, that intentional act today (if today is the day before average viability), will be ok despite the individual state of development of this particular fetus. Is that right?
    No because most states require that that the doctor determine if the fetus is viable on a fetus 22 weeks or more gestation before an abortion is performed.

    If you look at the Kansas abortion stats they ask if the fetus is viable.

    http://www.kdheks.gov/hci/abortion_sum/08itop1.pdf
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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