View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

Voters
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  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #1401
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    She can give up for adoption? If the father is known does he not have to agree to the adoption? I was under the impression there had to be a good faith effort to find the father so he will sign the papers as well. If this was very casual sex or bar pick ups or such, it may not be possible to know

    But you make it sound like a woman in each case has the right to give up the baby for adoption without the father's approval. I am not sure this is true. I had a coworker in danger of losing her soon to be born openly adopted baby because the father changed his mind. The father did some soul searching and ended up agreeing to the adoption, but there was a few weeks of tears and agony when it was thought that the adoption was in danger.

    But at least in this case, he had to sign the papers to give up parental rights and have the baby to be adopted legally. I am not sure how this relates to laws across the country or if this was a lawyer being over cautious. But my guess is there are laws against adopting the baby without good faith efforts to find the father.
    If the father objects to an adoption, then the child is not put up for adoption
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #1402
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    And how tough is it for her to simply not reveal the father? Not tough at all.

    Lots of women hide their pregnancies. The hospital has no recourse if she simply says she doesn't know, whether that's true or not. What are they gonna do about it?

    The man can't do anything without the woman allowing him to. Not even as pertains to his own life.

    On the other hand, the woman can do virtually anything she wants without his permission or knowledge, including give away the baby and ensuring he will never even see it.
    All a man has to do is look at the pregnant mother, and he will know she is pregnant. It is not something that is easy to hide.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #1403
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    I agree with this...



    ... but I don't agree with this, because it's not true. When a woman becomes pregnant, she still has options; the man doesn't. And like all inequities of power, this leads to exploitation and abuse.
    Hold it. Are you seriously suggesting that when it comes to sex, men are oppressed more than women?
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
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  4. #1404
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    First one's right.

    Second two are both wrong.

    If the mother wants to give the baby away, she doesn't need anyone's approval. All she has to do is not tell who the father is, that way they can't try to get his permission. That simple.

    I am fairly sure the woman would not be allowed to relinquish the baby to the father. Now, before you tell me things are therefore "fair," keep in mind that the woman has an extremely easy way to get around that, which I mentioned above.

    If she remained a legal parent, yes, but again, see above. It's ridiculously easy for her to avoid that.

    What we have right now is a system that practically encourages women to find loopholes.
    SAM...

    Given that we have a constitutional system that created a unilateral advantage - which is slanted and unfair.

    What possible legal and/or legislated solution do you perceive could be enacted in which none of the parties involved will be injured (injured meaning: will not affect an involved party by forced medical procedures, legal obligations, financial welfare, or quality of life) as the result of an unintended conception?

    If you've already posted an answer...do you mind repeating it or pointing me to a link?

    Thanks

  5. #1405
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Because a born baby is a person
    That doesn't answer the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And men have that liberty
    No, they do not. They have the option to "keep their legs shut if they don't want a baby", which you would be the first person to accuse me of being misogynist if I applied the same argument to women.

  6. #1406
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Hold it. Are you seriously suggesting that when it comes to sex, men are oppressed more than women?
    No, not in the least. I'm suggesting that when it comes to reproductive rights, men are oppressed. As passionate as I am about casual misogyny and rape culture, their existence does not provide justification for perpetuating a system that exploits and abuses men; sexism is sexism, and it hurts all of us.

  7. #1407
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    No, not in the least. I'm suggesting that when it comes to reproductive rights, men are oppressed. As passionate as I am about casual misogyny and rape culture, their existence does not provide justification for perpetuating a system that exploits and abuses men; sexism is sexism, and it hurts all of us.
    Wow, dude. Can you give us some concrete evidence about how women have systematically oppressed men in all walks of life? And I'm not just talking custody battles. That's a very specific subset of what I'm asking for.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
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  8. #1408
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    She can give up for adoption? If the father is known does he not have to agree to the adoption? I was under the impression there had to be a good faith effort to find the father so he will sign the papers as well. If this was very casual sex or bar pick ups or such, it may not be possible to know

    But you make it sound like a woman in each case has the right to give up the baby for adoption without the father's approval. But my guess is there are laws against adopting the baby without good faith efforts to find the father.
    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Everything is so unfair to us men!
    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    All a man has to do is look at the pregnant mother, and he will know she is pregnant. It is not something that is easy to hide.
    The key is "if the father is known;" not by the woman but by the authority she is submitting the child for adoption to. Furthermore, the male can't do anything unless she has told him she is pregnant, so he won't necessarily know that he has a child to assert any rights to.

    She may very well know who the father is, but she does not have to admit it. In cases where there is no husband she can simply tell the hospital she does NOT know, sign the paperwork giving up the baby for adoption, and that's all there is to it. She has fully opted out for both her and the male.

    Beyond the hospital option there is also the "baby drop off" option in some states where all a woman has to do is drop the baby off at a church, hospital, or fire station and then simply disappear. In either case unless the male knew about the prenancy and actively seeks the child, she's just opted-out for both of them. These are clear pro-life option's for women opposed to abortion but who do not wish to raise a child.

    Even if the male knows, it's possible for the woman to simply claim she had a miscarriage. Only a husband might know better since they share the medical bills.

    It is also disingenuous to presume every male will KNOW a girl he slept with is pregnant. Why? Some engaged in one-night stands; some in short-term hook-ups; some in moderate-term "relationships;" some in long-term but not live-in relationships; some in long-term relationships in which she "takes a break" and he might not see here for a few months. Hell, there's even the possibility in a marriage where the husband is away like a soldier on overseas duty. In each case the woman is in total control of not only her decision to abort, but also her decision to place the child up for adoption. In each case she can also decide to tell him and he is stuck with the obligations.

    Are the members arguing against SAM's position really that myopic; only seeing things one absolute way?? The man MUST know? Really? REALLY?!?!

    Women abort without telling men all the time. Many women also simply give the child up for adoption without ever telling the male she gave birth. Thus the woman can uniltarally opt-out of childbirth either via abortion, or simply by not telling the male and then abandoning the child for adoption. However, if she tells him and she states she is keeping it...he's stuck.

    That is inequitable, and all your fallacious arguments do not balance the equation. Those arguments do not address the essential question, why does she get to unilaterally decide for both when it comes to keeping a child?
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 09-23-13 at 02:57 AM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  9. #1409
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    SAM...

    Given that we have a constitutional system that created a unilateral advantage - which is slanted and unfair.

    What possible legal and/or legislated solution do you perceive could be enacted in which none of the parties involved will be injured (injured meaning: will not affect an involved party by forced medical procedures, legal obligations, financial welfare, or quality of life) as the result of an unintended conception?

    If you've already posted an answer...do you mind repeating it or pointing me to a link?

    Thanks
    There is no possible system that could do that, with the present limitations of medicine. Our present system presents substantial harm to all parties involved. And likely, any other system would too.

    But that ain't the point. You aren't reading.

    The point is that people have fundamental rights to their own person. If the possibility of negative outcomes is unavoidable -- and it is -- at least I can say I support the only position that doesn't impose harm in itself by treating one sex or the other as a servant or an idiot, either of which need to be controlled by a denial of rights.

  10. #1410
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    All a man has to do is look at the pregnant mother, and he will know she is pregnant. It is not something that is easy to hide.
    Unless she just stops coming around him. In that case, it's extremely easy to hide, and plenty of women do it.

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