View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

Voters
101. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #1361
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    This is utterly disingenuous and ignores the entire crux of the argument.



    It isn't about being absolved of financial responsibility. It's about not being forced into a solemn and profound obligation against one's will. You're the one narrowing down a father's responsibilities to nothing more than financial support-- which is also a direct consequence of coercing them into providing that support in the first place.
    You act like the man had no choice. Do not place tab "A" into slot "B" without a condom and assurance that the woman is using birth control or better yet, have a vasectomy.


    ================) no no no no {:}

  2. #1362
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Gezzzzzzzussss Gawd! 1361 posts...and still crying about the problem...and NOT ONE SINGLE LEGITIMATE SOLUTION that doesn't cause injury (meaning welfare compromised) to one or more of the involved parties.

    How many more ways can it be said that a conditional, unilateral control over the fate of a conception is slanted and unfair?

  3. #1363
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Girls, would you respect a man who knocked up a girl....had a child and refused to take responsibility?

    Yeah...that is the guy to marry!!!!

  4. #1364
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Gezzzzzzzussss Gawd! 1361 posts...and still crying about the problem...and NOT ONE SINGLE LEGITIMATE SOLUTION that doesn't cause injury (meaning welfare compromised) to one or more of the involved parties.

    How many more ways can it be said that a conditional, unilateral control over the fate of a conception is slanted and unfair?
    Hi RM. Hows things today?

    Since you wish to see something along the lines of a "Model Statute" here is a link to a dissertation provided by Melanie G. McCulley. It' starts off like this:

    IV. Model Statute

    Given the courts' unwillingness to recognize and protect the putative father's procreative choice, the legislature must act to protect the rights of the putative father. The following model statute is applicable where the unmarried female has made the decision to forego adoption or abortion and wishes to maintain custody of the child. As a direct result of the female's decision, the putative father no longer has a choice in his financial responsibilities to the child. This statute recognizes the inequity existing between the female's ability to choose whether she will be responsible for her child, without interference from the putative father, and the putative father's inability to make the same choice.

    101. Purpose

    The legislature recognizes the best interests of the child are not always met by requiring a putative father to pay child support against his will because the putative father's intentional failure to pay support leads to deep emotional scars in the child. In order to provide the most nurturing atmosphere for the child, free from the constant rejection by the putative father through his nonpayment, the legislature enacts the following termination of putative paternal parental rights statute.
    The rest (along with some good reading on the merits) can be found here: http://maleabortion.com/

    Perhaps that will help.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 09-21-13 at 01:11 AM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  5. #1365
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    You act like the man had no choice. Do not place tab "A" into slot "B" without a condom and assurance that the woman is using birth control or better yet, have a vasectomy.


    ================) no no no no {:}
    LOL You are very free with this constant harping on "vasectomy" thing...how about the opposite (and just as silly a "suggestion") getting your tubes tied if you are a woman and want recreational sex?
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  6. #1366
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    LOL You are very free with this constant harping on "vasectomy" thing...how about the opposite (and just as silly a "suggestion") getting your tubes tied if you are a woman and want recreational sex?
    Again, you seem to think life is equal and fair.

    First of all, I say CONDOMS and vasectomy. Thank you for leaving condoms out of the picture.

    Both partners should be using birth control. (Planned Parenthood will that morsel)

    But if that fails....sorry...life ain't fair. Not sure where you got the idea that two people with different anatomy and physiology can have "equal" experiences to men.

    The bottom line is that a man cannot control a woman's body. So when (if) the baby is born and the baby does not have both birth parents consenting to adoption - then it is in the child's best interest to have two parents supporting the child. It is in the TAXpayers best interest that this happens rather than the child entering into the public assistant venue at birth.

    Sorry. It ain't fair or equal. But frankly, if you have a child or become a parent on purpose, tell me if your wife thinks the pregnancy experience is "equal"

  7. #1367
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Girls, would you respect a man who knocked up a girl....had a child and refused to take responsibility?

    Yeah...that is the guy to marry!!!!
    Depends.

    I've known more than one guy who got "oopsed." Condoms vandalized, lying about birth control, etc.

    Can I respect walking in that scenario? Yup, sure can. The woman in this situation is a manipulative piece of a crap. And if she's so determined to have a kid with an unwilling partner who did everything they could, she can go it on her own.

    To be completely fair, I've also known men who did the same thing. Disgusting.

    In other situations? I wouldn't say I'm in a place to judge. Again, it depends.

    Did he tell her he would? Then no, I don't respect him. He's a liar.

    Did he say up front, or before hand, that he wouldn't? Well... it's hard to fault him, honestly. I don't know if I respect him, but I don't disrespect him either. The woman has so many choices, but he has so few. There's really nothing he can do to prevent that birth from happening once the mistake has already occurred, while the woman could. It just doesn't feel right to fault him for exercising the only choice he has, if he is also being up-front about it at a point where she still has choices. Just can't fault him.

    Can I disrespect an honest man who simply doesn't want his entire life derailed forever for something he had no choice in? Can't say that I can, based on that alone.

  8. #1368
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Now you're seeing things which aren't there. He never said that, yet you imagine he does.

    Even worse for you, we were talking about a "child," not a fetus, which also speaks to post-birth.
    You are the only one seeing things.
    It was called even before you posted a reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    On the contrary, I have yet to see anyone argue in favor of a post-birth abrogation of responsibility assuming he knew of the child.
    They don't realize what you are saying. The underlined.
    Heck, it doesn't appear that they understand much.

    I set it out in the beginning.
    He should have a choice.
    To ensure fairness he should also be given roughly the same about of time that she has to make the decision once informed.
    Roughly 90 days.
    Whether that be before or after the birth.
    This ensures that she is not able to coerce him into taking responsibility by not informing him. Which of course has to be taken into consideration in designing such law.

    Funny how everyone that talks about it sees it, but not you.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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  9. #1369
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Procreation is the whole reason we have sex drives and genders in the first place. Duh. That you have sex for secondary reasons does not negate the first. Pretty simple stuff, but if you still don't know what the *reproductive* systom is for then a 4th grade life-sciences or biology or sex-ed book will educate you well.
    Oy Vey!
    That is not proof of your position.
    Nor can you provide proof of such.

    Consent to have sex is not consent to have a child.
    Nothing in what you provided says so.
    You are engaging in silliness.

    As I previously stated; If sex resulted in pregnancy a majority of the time, you might be able to assert such a claim. As it is, it doesn't, so your position is silly.
    Consent to have sex is not consent to have a child, only to sex.

    Especially when contraceptives are involved. Which plainly indicate there is no consent to a child.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Yes and that choice is made when you have sex.
    No it is not Jerry.
    You can ignore that all you want and continue to hold to your absolutely absurdly idiotic position, but it changes nothing.
    Consent to sex is not consent to a child.

    I have debunked this in different ways.
    So for you and those like you, lets go in this direction.

    We already know that this isn't consent to have a child because if it was then the woman would also be consenting to a child by having sex. Yet that simply isn't true. Her choice to consents comes later when she knows she is pregnant.
    If it isn't consent for her at the time of sex, it isn't consent for the male either.

    But lets go with your absurd idea that it is. (even though it isn't)
    The woman later gets to change her mind/withdraw consent once she finds out she is pregnant.
    Since she gets to do this, then so should the male.
    It is only fair and proper.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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  10. #1370
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Because there is no legal solution to create an equal choice...we clearly see that having a unilateral choice by either party creates conflicting interests. If neither man or woman want to choose a solution involving abstinence or sterilization. Perhaps a legal contractual solution for sexual relationships might level the playing field.

    But that would sure mess up those spontaneous wild nights of fun and frolic known as a one night stand.
    Yes, this proposal is that solution.


    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Gezzzzzzzussss Gawd! 1361 posts...and still crying about the problem...and NOT ONE SINGLE LEGITIMATE SOLUTION that doesn't cause injury (meaning welfare compromised) to one or more of the involved parties.

    How many more ways can it be said that a conditional, unilateral control over the fate of a conception is slanted and unfair?
    Wrong!
    The legitimate solution is the proposal.
    It does not injure anyone.


    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Is CONDITIONAL, UNILATERAL CONTROL to decide the fate of a conception SLANTED? YES!

    Is CONDITIONAL, UNILATERAL CONTROL to decide the fate of a conception UNFAIR? YES!
    Enough said. Proposal wins by default.


    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    And it's especially unfair to a kid born into Freak World where one of it's creators don't give a **** about its welfare.
    No. What is actually unfair is bringing a kid into this freak world to begin with.

    But this way, it is determined who is responsible for the child beforehand.
    Which also means that a woman choosing to bring a child into this world would be doing so knowing she would be responsible for supporting the child if the man didn't want to. Which equates to a more informed decision as whether or not to bring a child into this world. Likely resulting in less births. Less births where the state wouldn't have to seek out someone to be responsible because she couldn't.

    Which is actually in the interest of the State and the child.


    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    The standing provisions that allow unilateral control to exist is built around "best interest"...period.
    And what is the best interest of the child and the state, can change with the flick of a pen or the wisp of a decision.
    And having it established prior to birth as to whom is responsible, seems like it is in the best interest of both.


    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    As of today there is no existing legal device to make it fair.
    Yes there is. Passing this proposal into law is one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    But this is what's most amazing about this thread:

    All of the bitching in the past 1343 post...and not one single person has come up with a legal solution or legislated solution with is TRULY EQUITABLE. WHY?
    You thinking something isn't equitable does not mean it isn't.
    As we can see, there are folks that believe it is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    PUT THE **** UP OR SHUT THE **** UP! What is a solution in which no party involved is injured (meaning welfare compromised) by the decision of the other?
    Making a decision before birth as to who is responsible does not compromise anybody's welfare. It actually ensures who is responsible for the child's welfare.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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