View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

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  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #1311
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    There is no opt-out option for taking responsibility for a child. Both mother and father are required by law to care for their children

    Your argument relies on the fiction that there is a way for a mother to opt out of her responsibilities to care for her child.
    Sorry Sangha, NOT a "fiction." Whether she is pro-life and cannot opt to abort due to her moral convictions, or not; she can still simply not inform the father and then put the child up for adoption. This is not an unusual occurrance.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  2. #1312
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Sorry Sangha, NOT a "fiction." Whether she is pro-life and cannot opt to abort due to her moral convictions, or not; she can still simply not inform the father and then put the child up for adoption. This is not an unusual occurrance.
    You're still posting fiction

    A woman can not hide a pregnancy. All the father has to do is take a look at her and know that's she's pregnant. He doesn't need her to inform him.

    Then, he can go to court to enforce his parental rights and prevent an adoption, if he wants to.

    This too, is not an unusual occurance
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #1313
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You're still posting fiction

    A woman can not hide a pregnancy. All the father has to do is take a look at her and know that's she's pregnant. He doesn't need her to inform him.

    Then, he can go to court to enforce his parental rights and prevent an adoption, if he wants to.

    This too, is not an unusual occurance

    Wrong sangha, you keep treating this situation as if it were occurring in either a marriage or long-term committed relationship. Often this occurs as the result of one night stands, or short-term periods of recreational sex. Even in long-term but unmarried relationships women have been known to "take a break" to hide a pregnancy in order to put a child up for adoption. In none of these scenarios is the male ever made aware he had a child.

    The woman doesn't even have to go through formal adoption procedures, many states now have "baby drop-off" laws allowing anonymous legal abandonment of babies. Did they get created in a vacuum?
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  4. #1314
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Wrong sangha, you keep treating this situation as if it were occurring in either a marriage or long-term committed relationship. Often this occurs as the result of one night stands, or short-term periods of recreational sex. Even in long-term but unmarried relationships women have been known to "take a break" to hide a pregnancy in order to put a child up for adoption. In none of these scenarios is the male ever made aware he had a child.
    IOW, you think it's unfair that a man has to pay child support when he has a one-night stand and the mother doesn't tell him she's pregnant and gives the kid away for adoption?

    Don't you realize that in this scenario, the father doesn't pay child support?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #1315
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    IOW, you think it's unfair that a man has to pay child support when he has a one-night stand and the mother doesn't tell him she's pregnant and gives the kid away for adoption?

    Don't you realize that in this scenario, the father doesn't pay child support?
    Sangha, the argument is about a woman's ability to opt-out that is not shared by the male. The example we are discussing is one where a woman who has a child can STILL opt-out without the male's knowledge.

    While it is true she cannot do this (at least not easily) if she INFORMS him of the baby, you keep forgetting that in an opt-out scenario not only can she abort but she can choose not to inform the male, have the child and put it up for adoption and this still constitutes a unilateral opt-out on her part. If she INFORMS him and he says he wants it put up for adoption (being pro-life) she can simply say no and he is stuck.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 09-20-13 at 03:54 AM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  6. #1316
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Sangha, the argument is about a woman's right to opt-out. The example we are discussing is one where a woman who has a child can STILL opt-out without the male's knowledge.
    How is a man who isn't going to have to pay any child support being forced to pay child support because the woman had an abortion?

    Or did you forget what this thread is about?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #1317
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    How is a man who isn't going to have to pay any child support being forced to pay child support because the woman had an abortion?

    Or did you forget what this thread is about?
    I know perfectly well what this thread is all about. What our current dispute is about shows in the below chain of responses:


    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Wrong sangha, you keep treating this [adoption] situation as if it were occurring in either a marriage or long-term committed relationship. Often this occurs as the result of one night stands, or short-term periods of recreational sex. Even in long-term but unmarried relationships women have been known to "take a break" to hide a pregnancy in order to put a child up for adoption. In none of these scenarios is the male ever made aware he had a child.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You're still posting fiction. A woman can not hide a pregnancy. All the father has to do is take a look at her and know that's she's pregnant. He doesn't need her to inform him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Sorry Sangha, NOT a "fiction." Whether she is pro-life and cannot opt to abort due to her moral convictions, or not; she can still simply not inform the father and then put the child up for adoption.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    There is no opt-out option for taking responsibility for a child. Both mother and father are required by law to care for their children. Your argument relies on the fiction that there is a way for a mother to opt out of her responsibilities to care for her child.
    This is not an unusual occurrance.
    Then, he can go to court to enforce his parental rights and prevent an adoption, if he wants to.
    The woman doesn't even have to go through formal adoption procedures, many states now have "baby drop-off" laws allowing anonymous legal abandonment of babies. Did they get created in a vacuum?
    So I repeat; the current argument between us is about a woman's ability to opt-out that is not shared by the male. The example we are discussing is one where a woman who has a child can STILL opt-out without the male's knowledge or choice.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 09-20-13 at 04:12 AM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  8. #1318
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    I know perfectly well what this thread is all about. What our current dispute is about shows in the below chain of responses:
    A woman can not opt out of her responsibilities to care for her child.



    So I repeat; the current argument between us is about a woman's ability to opt-out that is not shared by the male. The example we are discussing is one where a woman who has a child can STILL opt-out without the male's knowledge or choice.
    There is no opting out once there is a child, and if the child is put out for adoption without the fathers knowledge then he doesn't have to pay child support. You haven't explained how a situation that doesn't require child support from the father justifies allowing the father to opt out of his responsibility.

    You're saying that because there's a situation that doesn't require the father to pay child support, he shouldn't have to pay child support in a completely different scenario. That is absurd!!
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #1319
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    [COLOR="#0000FF"]That's not what you said. You said women don't pay child support, which is ludicrous
    Not at all. The woman is raising the child, not sending off a check.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    I have yet to see anyone argue in favor of a post-birth abrogation of responsibility assuming he knew of the child.
    Now ya have ...

    "Yes. A firm backdrop. He gets 90 days firm from the point he is notified to make his choice. Even if she has already given birth. " ~ Excon
    I've highlighted the relevant portion for you.

  10. #1320
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    When the father is raising the child the woman does send off the check.
    Both parents pay for the support of the child.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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