View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

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  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #1291
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Man...you've missed the boat. A contract need not legislated. One contract won't fit all variables. A legal Contract is between 2 agreeing people...without the ****ing government involved.

    How people want to agree is none of your business...my business or the ****ing governments business. It will be enforceable...without government.

    What's so hard to understand about a contract?
    Nothing's hard to understand about a contract, but obviously my point is well beyond your grasp. I can't force you to understand something that you don't want to, so I'll leave you to whatever you feel comfortable with.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Nothing's hard to understand about a contract, but obviously my point is well beyond your grasp. I can't force you to understand something that you don't want to, so I'll leave you to whatever you feel comfortable with.
    Thanks..I appreciate that. It'll be a relief for us both.

  3. #1293
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Yeah, holy ****, but it's because cpwill's qualifier clearly contemplated that the father knew about the child before birth.

    Good God, I let myself get sucked into the stupid anyway. I have no one but myself to blame -- it was plain as day; the gaping vortex of stupid was right there in front of me.
    Now you're seeing things which aren't there. He never said that, yet you imagine he does.

    Even worse for you, we were talking about a "child," not a fetus, which also speaks to post-birth.

  4. #1294
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    If you can find where I've ever "spouted that kind of nonsense" at any women's rights, you might have a point. Until then, you most certainly don't.

    In any case, I suspect you meant it earnestly, and that's really what you do think about the question of this thread. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that and you do see it as an unfair double-standard.
    No, I understand consent well enough to know that sex does not mean consenting to children. A person's body belongs to them and them alone, so the answer to the OP's question is a resounding no. The other part, about child support, is a bit more complex. When children live with their fathers, the mothers are on the hook for child support, just like when the reverse happens. So, the trouble then is that children frequently live with the mother. So then the problem is the societal double standard that women are supposed to be responsible for the children. Feel free to attack that if you like, and contend that there should not be a presumption of custody to mothers, but that's really the only reasonable argument to have about the issue. Anything else is nonsense or whining about not having enough privilege.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  5. #1295
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Yes, but if I remember correctly you also believe the child may be killed up to 3 days after birth.
    Nine.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    As for forcing men to be fathers against their will, after the 3-day kill-period (if I got that right), you instead do support SOMEONE forced to raise the child, don't you? Just not the father. The who? Who do you want to FORCE to raise the child?
    No. The purpose of the nine-day period is for the parents to decide if they want the child. If they don't want the child, and a panel of doctors deems the child healthy and likely to be adopted, I support the State temporarily supporting the child until such time as suitable adoptive parents can be found. If the child isn't adoptable and the biological mother doesn't want it, or can't afford it, the child should be killed. I do not support, under any circumstances, forcing either a man or a woman to become a parent to a child they do not want; the only people who should ever be compelled, legally or morally, to raise a child are people who have already agreed to do so.

  6. #1296
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    I am not saying that is how it is. I am saying that is how it ought to be, IF she relinquishes her parental rights, which is what is being discussed for men here.

    If she simply becomes the non-custodial parent, then child support should still be an option for the custodial parent.
    Child support an option? So you are ok with a child not being financially supported? (at least as well as the child should be).

    I just have to love these "its not fair" responses. Wear a damned condom no matter what BC she is using or get a vasectomy.

    Seriously, if you want "its not fair" try pregnancy. At least women usually have the sense to know that there isn't fair or unfair....

  7. #1297
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    No, I understand consent well enough to know that sex does not mean consenting to children. A person's body belongs to them and them alone, so the answer to the OP's question is a resounding no. The other part, about child support, is a bit more complex. When children live with their fathers, the mothers are on the hook for child support, just like when the reverse happens. So, the trouble then is that children frequently live with the mother. So then the problem is the societal double standard that women are supposed to be responsible for the children. Feel free to attack that if you like, and contend that there should not be a presumption of custody to mothers, but that's really the only reasonable argument to have about the issue. Anything else is nonsense or whining about not having enough privilege.
    The question doesn't have anything to do with custody, nor is it a question of "privilege."

    It sounds to me like I was right; you accept the double standard, and would indeed say "if you didn't want to be on the hook for the kid, you shouldn't have had sex."
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  8. #1298
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    No, I understand consent well enough to know that sex does not mean consenting to children. A person's body belongs to them and them alone, so the answer to the OP's question is a resounding no. The other part, about child support, is a bit more complex. When children live with their fathers, the mothers are on the hook for child support, just like when the reverse happens. So, the trouble then is that children frequently live with the mother. So then the problem is the societal double standard that women are supposed to be responsible for the children. Feel free to attack that if you like, and contend that there should not be a presumption of custody to mothers, but that's really the only reasonable argument to have about the issue. Anything else is nonsense or whining about not having enough privilege.
    I agree Pasch...

    Nobody is disputing that a disparity exist. But it does so for a purpose. It's built around "best interest". The government has a duty to protect. And when a child is born, it is born with rights that are the same as the parents, which the government has a duty to protect.

    But what separates the interest of a child is that it cannot provide for its own hierarchy of needs. The government does and should require all involved parties to be legally and financially responsible...and neither parent is excluded.

    The rub is about one issue only. We all know what it is. UNILATERAL CONTROL over the fate of the conception. IS IT FAIR? Obviously it's a slanted situation. But one that NO PERSON has figured out how to legally resolve this disparity without injury to one or more parties.

    Harshaw is looking for a punitive revenge remedy. Not about resolving the issues regarding unilateral choice...which, by the way, won't be resolved legislatively. ,People can't accept that this is not a binary issue. Depending on circumstances, the number of entities of interest can vary. But if a child is born, there will be at least 3 and possibly 4. Man, woman, child, state.

    That is the reality with conditional, unilateral control over the fate of a fetus. As far as I can determine there is no equitable legal remedy for all parties of interest.

    Such as life...

  9. #1299
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    The exact same power women had before abortion was legalized.
    Which doesn't change the fact that men have the absolute power to not have children.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Whether or not the birth happens is entirely under her control. The rest of your post is obviated by that.
    Whether or not a man fathers a child is entirely under his control
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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