View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

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  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #1271
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Yes. Not so much that she can declare that he has no rights, but that he has no rights unless she declares otherwise-- it's nothing against men, it's the fact that genetics are absolutely morally irrelevant to my concept of paternity. Mothers and fathers are equal partners in parenthood, but a man isn't a father until the mother has given the child to him, and he has chosen to give it his name.



    Can't speak for anyone else in specific, but there are people who agree with me, at least in general terms.



    Now, wouldn't that just be a tragedy?
    I don't think anybody disagrees that there is a disparity created by our judicial system. But if we could remove the kid from the equation...who is really most impacted by poor choices, then I wouldn't have any personal issues.

    It is impossible to have a equal choice. You know that. And how would it be better for a kid if the man has the unilateral choice.

    This problem...isn't a binary one. It's just not. It's damn unfortunate, but only a bona fide sexual relationship contract...enforceable in a court of law...would really level the equality. It would have to read that a woman agrees to either an abortion...or take full legal and financial responsibility and remove the man from the equation. There is no other legal remedy.

    So I bet that also narrows a guy's ability to find a willing woman who would sign such a contract. But...better than a sharp stick in the eye..

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Did you even read what you quoted?
    Of course. CP said he hadn't seen anyone on here suggesting that men should be allowed to opt out after the baby was born.

    I showed him one.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    And how would it be better for a kid if the man has the unilateral choice.
    He doesn't. The woman can choose the same by aborting.

    "Better for the kid" doesn't factor into "reproductive choice" as it's advocated for abortion, so it doesn't factor into this.

    Individuals may absolutely choose to factor it into their own choices, but that boils down to "don't like abortion? Don't have one."

    This problem...isn't a binary one. It's just not. It's damn unfortunate, but only a bona fide sexual relationship contract...enforceable in a court of law...would really level the equality. It would have to read that a woman agrees to either an abortion...or take full legal and financial responsibility and remove the man from the equation. There is no other legal remedy.
    Sure there is. You just make the default of the law the same as if that contract were in force. This is done for many, many things.
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Of course. CP said he hadn't seen anyone on here suggesting that men should be allowed to opt out after the baby was born.

    I showed him one.
    Then you just ignored the qualifier he put in and you gave an example of something which fell within that qualifier. That was either intentional or you simply don't understand you did this. It's one or the other. You tell me which.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    He doesn't. The woman can choose the same by aborting.

    "Better for the kid" doesn't factor into "reproductive choice" as it's advocated for abortion, so it doesn't factor into this.

    Individuals may absolutely choose to factor it into their own choices, but that boils down to "don't like abortion? Don't have one."



    Sure there is. You just make the default of the law the same as if that contract were in force. This is done for many, many things.
    No...there is no "legislative way to create equal choice".

    Well, as it stands...the State will protect a born kid...over that of the woman and a man. Once a kid born...KABOOM...both will pay as it is.

    A kid can't provide for its hierarchy of needs...and the state will take conservatorship...if need be but they will pursue legal actions against both parents to recover cost of maintain. That is a fact.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Then you just ignored the qualifier he put in and you gave an example of something which fell within that qualifier. That was either intentional or you simply don't understand you did this. It's one or the other. You tell me which.
    I'll be happy to tell you which ... it's the third choice you left out ...

    His qualifier was ...
    "assuming he knew of the child."

    The quote I showed him contained that qualifier ... "Yes. A firm backdrop. He gets 90 days firm from the point he is notified to make his choice. Even if she has already given birth. "

    So why did you leave that 3rd choice out? Was it intentional or didn't you understand?

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    No...there is no "legislative way to create equal choice".
    I just told you how. You said the contract would do it. You legislate the contract as the default. Done.

    There are any number of things which do exactly this, like warranty rights. They used to be simply contractual. Now they're statutory. It's exactly the same thing.


    A kid can't provide for its hierarchy of needs...and the state will take conservatorship...if need be but they will pursue legal actions against both parents to recover cost of maintain. That is a fact.
    Whether or not it's a "fact," it's irrelevant to the question.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    I'll be happy to tell you which ... it's the third choice you left out ...

    His qualifier was ...
    "assuming he knew of the child."

    The quote I showed him contained that qualifier ... "Yes. A firm backdrop. He gets 90 days firm from the point he is notified to make his choice. Even if she has already given birth. "

    So why did you leave that 3rd choice out? Was it intentional or didn't you understand?
    "From the moment he's notified" indicates he DIDN'T know about the child.

    Never mind; I have no patience for a merry-go-round of stupid tonight. You carry on.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  9. #1279
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    No, it's at the very heart of the matter. If you don't think it is, then you do not understand the point of the argument.

    That sounds like the argument for outlawing abortion.

    I exactly understand the "heart of the matter" - and the "heart of the matter" to me is the welfare of a living, breathing child - and the heart of of the matter" to us is that men should be able to be deadbeats to their own to get even with women by harming/abandoning his own child.

    And, once again, you exactly make the point that many pro-life men actually don't care in the slightest about the child - none, zero, nada. It is solely about power over women. NOTHING you post is in any way good for the child.

    Show me any message you posted of ANY concern about the child whatsoever.

    You want a man to be able to try to extort a woman into getting an abortion - and then to totally be a deadbeat towards his own child if she doesn't. You promote abortion prior to birth and you promote economic and total parental responsibility abortion by the man after birth.
    Last edited by joko104; 09-20-13 at 12:14 AM.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I exactly understand the "heart of the matter" - and the "heart of the issue" to me is the welfare of a living, breathing child - and the heart of of the matter" to men should be able to be deadbeats to their own to get even with women.
    Obviously, you don't.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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