View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

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  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #1211
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Except for all the choices the mother gets to make before she becomes a mother.
    Choices have nothing to do with the matter under the law. People aren't absolved of the auto accidents they're involved in because they didn't choose to get in an accident.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #1212
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    An unborn child is not an injury or a disease but a natural occurrence when you have sex.
    I have no idea why anyone argues that something being "natural" adds any merit to it in any way.

    I don't necessarily mean you, but some prolifers think that urging animalistic morality and standards makes their case. If you have something I want, natural law says I just take it if I want it and can get away with it. "Natural" law allows theft, murder, rape. Marriage is not "natural law" nor is monogamy. Getting the flu is a natural occurrence if you kiss someone.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    The legal and ethical reason why the bio-parents including the bio-father are economically required to provide for the child(ren) he and they make is because SOMEONE has do pay. Thus, who has to pay is who made it happen.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    To save money on welfare?

    Children do not have parents until their names are on a birth certificate? Good...thats great. Then make them all wards of the state...and that's only like 3000 a month for foster care.
    And it's more than that too. It takes more than money to raise a child. I believe the obligation - like it or not - goes well beyond money to the entire "parenting" set of duties.

  5. #1215
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Choices have nothing to do with the matter under the law. People aren't absolved of the auto accidents they're involved in because they didn't choose to get in an accident.

    That's true...and I'll tell you what else is true.

    The reason why legislators won't ever exempt either parent or both parents from legal and financial responsibilities is that if a conception, which is brought to birth for any reason: The government created laws, which serves to protect a child because the child cannot provide for itself any of the hierarchy of needs (food, housing, medical care, etc). A child has no voice in political or legal arenas, which would allow a child to advocate for its own existence or needs or assistance.

    And some people in this forum who scream out about "Constitutional Rights"...have somehow forgotten than once a child is born...KABOOM...it has Constitutional Rights which is government's duty to protect.

    In addition, if either or both parents fail to meet the hierarchy of needs of a child. The state government (sometimes federal) will intervene.

    In the case of both parents failing to meet a child's needs (including legally pronounced unfit). The state will take conservatorship of the child. The state will enforce its right to hold the parents financially accountable (in part of whole). The state will pursue child support from these parents in order to offset the expense to the state, which is also an expense to the taxpayers.

    In the case of one parent failing to provide their legal obligation according to the respective state statutes, the state will pursue whatever legal means available to collect any possible or portion of monies that went to the child in the form of State or Federal Assistance. This can apply to a mother or father.

    An opt-out law would remove one of the co-creators of the child from any legal or financial responsibility...and that isn't in the interest of the child, first and foremost,...nor the state. And when I say "State" I am also saying taxpayers.

    Courts are used to settle disputes in relationships of all kinds. There are so many different types of relationships...I can't name them all.

    However, the most common types of disputes are settled in family court. If co-creator (parent) was legally able to opt out of any responsibility for a child. That would render both the state powerless...and the guardian of a child, whether that be a parent or state conservator...to legally intervene ON BEHALF OF THE CHILD in order to protect its interest, which would normally implicate a parent (MEN) who would OPT OUT of responsibility....because life is unfair...

    As a last resort...will a court terminate a parent's rights... for the very same reasons there will never be legislation to allow a MAN to OPT out of responsibility. It is simply not in the best interest of a child...the state...and taxpayers.

    Oh, and even when parents are rendered unfit by a court...that does not terminate their rights...or the states rights to hold them legally and financially responsible.

    Two people make a baby...two people will be held legally and financially responsible. Be prepared to pay the piper...

    Thanks, Sangha...

  6. #1216
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    But I will bite anyway. Why in the hell should the state (read taxpayers) pay for the children of the women that you knock up if you have the ability to share some financial responsibility.
    Why in the hell should anybody have to pay for decisions that someone else made? Answer that question. When a woman gets pregnant, she has all of the options-- as it should be-- but why then are other people responsible for her choices? A man does not have a say in whether or nor not she bears the child. (As it should be.) A man does not have a say in whether or not she keeps the child. (As it should be.) So after she has chosen to bear the child, and she has chosen to keep the child, both without any input or authority on his part... why then, and only then, is he suddenly "equally responsible"?

    You deflect with parodies of pro-life misogynistic arguments, but nobody is willing to answer that simple question.
    Last edited by Korimyr the Rat; 09-19-13 at 02:45 AM.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Why in the hell should anybody have to pay for decisions that someone else made? Answer that question. When a woman gets pregnant, she has all of the options-- as it should be-- but why then are other people responsible for her choices? A man does not have a say in whether or nor not she bears the child. (As it should be.) A man does not have a say in whether or not she keeps the child. (As it should be.) So after she has chosen to bear the child, and she has chosen to keep the child, both without any input or authority on his part... why then, and only then, is he suddenly "equally responsible"?

    You deflect with parodies of pro-life misogynistic arguments, but nobody is willing to answer that simple question.
    I answered the question in post right above your post...minie is something like 1215. You just don't like the answer. And I doubt you'll get a better one.

    And I can say the same to you. I've asked you how such an arrangement would be legally worded in order for a man to opt out.

    You...like so many others want to ignore that a 3rd party has been created...which can't provide for itself..and no man...all things aren't equal for women in so many ways...but tough **** for her..because they choose to keep the bastard.

    You've already said bunches of times..."the kid isn't important". He or she is just a victim of poor choices of the two people who created it....tough **** for the kid. How do you think the welfare state has gotten so crazy? You hate the welfare state, but you can't see the implications of one parent saying...I'm not doing this so **** you and **** the kid.

    You tell us all what an EQUAL OR TRULY EQUITABLE solution looks like. But I will tell you that whatever it is...can't compromise the best interest of the kid. Sorry, Vik...but it's not a fair situation. Life ain't fair.

    I still can't get over the argument that...hey a man and a woman ****...and a conception happens accidentally...and damn...the guy doesn't want it...so he tells the chick, if you want the kid...you're on your own...I'm out of here pal.

    That's when the state will intervene...for the best interest of the kid.

    You only see a punitive solution. You want to punish the woman for the CHOICE of having a kid (which he helped create)...and punish the kid by denying it SHARED support it would have gotten from BOTH parents.

    Is it all fair? NOOOOOOOOOOO....when it comes to JUST THE MAN'S INTERESTS. And when he opts out...then it's not fair to the kid.

    Everybody get tubes tied and vasectomies at birth...that's the solution. Or...it might be a hell of alot cheaper for a man to get fornication insurance...for those unhappy moments (if that type of insurance could be underwritten.) Why not...it would work and be a lot cheaper in the long run for man.

    But now your gonna cry.,..but why does the man have to pay for the insurance. NO INSURANCE....NO NOOKIE! That's a choice...

  8. #1218
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    I simply pointed out to you the legal realities. And it wasn't from guessing...nor was it opinion. Oh...apparently I understand more than most about this issue. And there's reason for such...which I'm not going to broadcast in a Internet forum.

    thanks...for your kind responses...
    You have pointed out nothing that isn't already known. So apparently you do not understand or know more about this issue.
    But you do fail to acknowledged that things change. The change in opinion can be seen in this thread. Clearly showing you are unable to anticipate the future or what it holds.



    You saying "legislators won't ever" is ridiculous. You have no idea what they will or wont do. They could very well determine that this would be in the best interest of the state and the child.
    Constitutional protection to a born child can take other forms than those that exist now.
    It doesn't mater about any third party considerations as they can go away as easily as they were created.

    The responsibility truly belongs to the person who decided to bring a child into this world.
    Just as it should be if a woman used a sperm donor.


    And with the thought of an over populated earth for the resources, it is more likely than not that something akin will be implemented prior to full out and out forced abortions. Because as we know, the Constitution will have to protect those alive, not the unborn.

    So can your horse**** arguing the way it is. We know the way it is. This is about the way it can be and most likely will be.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  9. #1219
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Why in the hell should anybody have to pay for decisions that someone else made? Answer that question. When a woman gets pregnant, she has all of the options-- as it should be-- but why then are other people responsible for her choices? A man does not have a say in whether or nor not she bears the child. (As it should be.) A man does not have a say in whether or not she keeps the child. (As it should be.) So after she has chosen to bear the child, and she has chosen to keep the child, both without any input or authority on his part... why then, and only then, is he suddenly "equally responsible"?

    You deflect with parodies of pro-life misogynistic arguments, but nobody is willing to answer that simple question.
    I have answered repeatedly. You are under the assumption that all things should be fair and equal. With the case of men and women - they anatomically and physiologically are not equal. When you speak to fair and equal there can be no "fair" or equal. You have a false premise. Bottom line is that you are asking to have a man have control in what happens to a woman's body.

    Now, you make like there is no choice.

    Make the choice to have a vasectomy.

    Make a choice to wear condoms even if the woman is using contraception (hell, planned parenthood will tell you that)

    Only have sex with women you would like to have a family with

    Have sex with post menopausal women.

    keep you pants on and zipped up

    You have a lot of choices. But you have no control over a woman's body. Accept the consequences of your actions.

    And please stop asking for fair and equal in an anatomical and physiological situation where things cannot be equal.

  10. #1220
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The legal and ethical reason why the bio-parents including the bio-father are economically required to provide for the child(ren) he and they make is because SOMEONE has do pay. Thus, who has to pay is who made it happen.
    And both men and women pay once the baby is born.

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