View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

Voters
101. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
Page 111 of 150 FirstFirst ... 1161101109110111112113121 ... LastLast
Results 1,101 to 1,110 of 1494

Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #1101
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,073

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    No, that is his money not his body.
    It is his... what is the word? Oh yeah. Labor.

    It's his life, his body, his labor, the sweat of his brow. His life. His choice. Her life. Her Choice. Either both deserve choices or neither does.

    You are really trying to make like there is some huge disparity in the treatment of men. But you are asking for actual equality in a system where there is no possible equality.

    A woman physically has to endure the pregnancy. Even the most loving and doting of husbands cannot "feel her pain" or suffer her potential life/death health issues.

    There is no equity in that situation.
    I don't think anyone disagrees that it is women that get pregnant. But they have the option post coitus to decide they do not wish to be a parent - a decision that is not (and should be, if she wants to keep it) afforded to the father.

    How far feminism has fallen, that it is reduced to arguing for dependency.

    Or not. Perhaps the NOW president has a better grasp on the feminist approach to this issue than yourself.

    Perhaps the cheapest route is to get a reversible vasectomy or learn how to use a condom better ( and pick a good brand)
    What an interesting argument. I wonder what your response is when people bring up in the abortion debate that if a woman didn't want to get pregnant maybe she should get better birth control or not have sex with people she isn't married to.

    if you're going to claim that in the sex act the man is accepting responsibility for raising a child then you have to extend the same act to the woman which delegitimizes abortion.

    You don't get to have your cake and eat it too
    Last edited by cpwill; 09-17-13 at 10:54 PM.

  2. #1102
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    08-25-16 @ 08:31 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    11,265

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Nor is anyone arguing that a father should be allowed to divest himself of responsibilities once the child is born - only beforehand. The exact same as the mother.
    No one, huh .... ?

    "Therefore, if the male does not wish to have a child and he makes his decision plain, he should be allowed to legally opt-out of all further responsibility (and thus all future parental rights) at some point in the process." ~ Captain Adverse

    "but I should be able to have the option to say that if you have this baby, it is with absolutely no obligation (financial or otherwise) from me." ~ Gipper

    "He should have the right to absolve all legal responsibility towards the child if he doesn't want to raise it." ~ molten_dragon

  3. #1103
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,073

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    As the NOW President put it so aptly: women should not have the ability to make unilateral decisions and then demand that men fund them.
    Let us get this PERFECTLY straight. A man does not "fund" the woman. He supports his child. It is kind of telling you do not see the difference.
    Allow me to help, here. The "them" (which is a "pronoun") in the latter portion of the sentence quoted above refers to "decisions" (the noun).

  4. #1104
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,073

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    Nor is anyone arguing that a father should be allowed to divest himself of responsibilities once the child is born - only beforehand. The exact same as the mother.
    No one, huh .... ?

    "Therefore, if the male does not wish to have a child and he makes his decision plain, he should be allowed to legally opt-out of all further responsibility (and thus all future parental rights) at some point in the process." ~ Captain Adverse

    "but I should be able to have the option to say that if you have this baby, it is with absolutely no obligation (financial or otherwise) from me." ~ Gipper

    "He should have the right to absolve all legal responsibility towards the child if he doesn't want to raise it." ~ molten_dragon
    That is correct - all those posters appear to be making the same argument that pre-birth the father should have the right to say he does not wish to be a father, and sign away all rights and responsibilities.

  5. #1105
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    08-25-16 @ 08:31 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    11,265

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1. Pre-birth, the mother has the right to make the unilateral decision that she does not wish to be a mother. The father does not have the right to make a unilateral decision that he does not wish to be a father.
    Of course he doesn't have that same right -- he's not the one carrying the embryo. He doesn't deserve the same privileges she's afforded.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    2. Post-Birth, both are currently responsible for the kid.
    That's not what is being debated here. There are some folks here taking the position that if the woman has the baby, the man should not have to be responsible to support his own child.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    3. Therefore we should either make both responsible pre birth (my preferred position) or we should make both equally capable of making a unilateral decision not to be a parent pre birth.
    Since you don't know what's being discussed, your proposed solution is meaningless and doesn't apply to the discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    As the NOW President put it so aptly: women should not have the ability to make unilateral decisions and then demand that men fund them.
    You have an actual quote?

  6. #1106
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    08-25-16 @ 08:31 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    11,265

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is correct - all those posters appear to be making the same argument that pre-birth the father should have the right to say he does not wish to be a father, and sign away all rights and responsibilities.
    That's not what you said. You said they are trying to opt out only of the period while the woman is pregnant but not the 18 years which follow ...

    "to the pro-choice side he is choosing to divest himself for responsibility for raising a fetus, not a child. ~ cpwill

    Except that is not what is being suggested here. What is being suggested is that men should have the option to opt out of raising their own child.

  7. #1107
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    I am curious. we all know that child support may be required of the father despite his objections.....does the law ever require the man to pony up for pregnancy and delivery costs?
    A couple of things

    !) Child support is also required of the mother, whether or not she objects

    2) Any payments for medical costs during the pregnancy is for the mother, not the child.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #1108
    Sage



    Join Date
    May 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    12,203

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1. Pre-birth, the mother has the right to make the unilateral decision that she does not wish to be a mother. The father does not have the right to make a unilateral decision that he does not wish to be a father.

    2. Post-Birth, both are currently responsible for the kid.

    3. Therefore we should either make both responsible pre birth (my preferred position) or we should make both equally capable of making a unilateral decision not to be a parent pre birth.



    As the NOW President put it so aptly: women should not have the ability to make unilateral decisions and then demand that men fund them.
    I am curious, are you pro-life?

  9. #1109
    Irremovable Intelligence
    Removable Mind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    23,480

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Please reconsider that comment. The best decisions are based upon a rational assessment of all pros and cons. The mere fact that a change in legal rights might lead a woman to a deeper assessment than is currently required does not necessarily lead to coercion. She still has a choice. The male states at a time when she still has an easy out, "I do not want a baby and if you elect to keep it then it will be entirely your responsibility." She still has the same options, the only difference is she cannot coerce HIM into supporting them.

    When coercion occurs there is NO choice, you do what you are told; i.e. say uncle or I will twist your arm off. The situation discussed is not coercion. The real coercion occurs when the woman says I've decided to do this, now YOU are REQUIRED to do THAT because failure to do so will result in jail, garnishment, etc.



    Wow great argument in support of MY contention that the the REAL coercion occurs against the male.



    Simply because you say "this is the way things are and they will never change" does not make it a truth. In fact, things are subject to change all the time or else we would not be seeing abortions rights at all because there would be no abortion rights.



    Not automatically true. many single parents currently take full care of their own kids. No welfare, no social support...on. Their. Own. As argued, it is entirely possible that a woman facing only "welfare" might choose to abort and wait to have a child until she can either find a man who wants one with her, or have one and take care of it herself. Saying that just because under current public policy she gets to "double dip" with child-support from the father and social welfare from the state is the status quo does not mean that changes can't correct or modify that situation for the better.



    Of course it would have to be legislated. Just not HERE and right NOW. This is a debate; I am not going to write up a fake legislation example to support a hypothetical position. However, I did provide a citation to a wikipedia article wich might lead YOU to some current action in this regard. Read back a few pages and you might find it. (Post 1081 on page 109)
    When the woman says...YOU ARE REQUIRED?

    The woman isn't saying it...but you know who is.

    And coercion can be imposed...not based on "no other choice" but limited choice.

    And speaking of choice...the "choice" to opt out was available way before the unintended incident. Biological necessity for a woman to possess unilateral control...isn't a secret. Poor judgment on the guys part for not making that consideration prior to the little digression occurring...no matter who digression it was...or what contraceptive failed or any other unexpected reason.

    Your assessment of how many women are making it...is way too optimistic. Nearly 50 million are recipients of some kind of public assistance. Many of those are kids. You now as well as I do that if Opt out was legislated, which it would never be...yes..the numbers would grow and grow. It's inevitable.

    And since we can't define the language of an opt out...then...I'm not compelled to consider it as viable. If lawmakers were begin to debate and address all of the potential consequences...do you think for a second that it would be even remotely passable? I haven't even considered the possible constitutional arguments.

    And my friend...it's getting late...and I have to indulge in a little "Son's of Anarchy"....

    We'll continue later...

  10. #1110
    Sage



    Join Date
    May 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    12,203

    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    A couple of things

    !) Child support is also required of the mother, whether or not she objects

    2) Any payments for medical costs during the pregnancy is for the mother, not the child.
    I just have never heard of men being required to pay for cost of pregnancy or delivery. (in a non marriage situation)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •