View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

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101. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #1091
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    I'll believe that when men gain the same choices afforded women to divest themselves of responsibility before a child is born..
    Until birth, there is no responsibility so it's impossible for anyone to divest themselves of a responsibility that doesn't exist

    Once it's born, neither can divest themselves of the responsibility

    Your position depends on the fiction that an abortion is a divestment of something that doesn't exist
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    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    No it did not do away restrictions as I have told you before.
    Doe vs Bolton allows for abortions past viability in extreme cases where irreparable damage will take place to a major bodily function if the pregnancy continued.
    Incorrect. Doe v Bolton declared that "the medical judgment [that an abortion is required] may be exercised in the light of all factors - physical, emotional, psychological, familial, and the woman's age." No "irreparable damage to a major bodily function" is required whatsoever.

    In otherwords, the only "burden of proof" is that a baby would be inconvenient and difficult (and since when are babies ever easy?), or that emotionally you dont' want a child. It is a barrier that is effectively non-existant due to the broad and vague language attached to it.

    But this is a discussion of whether or not we should have equal rights for men and women, and perhaps you having to deal with that is better reserved for the abortion forum itself.

  3. #1093
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Well I found something on "wikipedia" about this issue, and from two female woman's rights advocates:

    Child support - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I guess there are efforts out there to try to change public policy.
    So much for ChrisL's ad hominem that the only reason people would support such a policy is the wish to abandon their own personal responsibilities.

  4. #1094
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    on the contrary. According to the pro-choice side he is choosing to divest himself for responsibility for raising a fetus, not a child. If we are going to offer one gender a veto over their future commitment to a "fetus", then we need to offer both genders a veto over their responsibility to the "fetus". If it is a child, then neither gender should get a veto excepting in the case where they choose to give a child up for adoption.
    That's not what this is about at all. You are even more confused about this thread than I first thought if you think folks here are advocating to merely get out of expenses during pregnancy and not from birth through age 18.


  5. #1095
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    There is no equal. Unless you are saying a man suffers the same physical consequences as a women does during pregnancy. Sorry, but her body her choice.
    Oh really. What exactly do you suppose he is going to be using to earn the money he will spend on 18-22 years of child support?

    His body. His choice.

  6. #1096
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    It's called "birth"



    Birth is not a "decision"; it's an "event"
    I am curious. we all know that child support may be required of the father despite his objections.....does the law ever require the man to pony up for pregnancy and delivery costs?

  7. #1097
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    That's not what this is about at all. You are even more confused about this thread than I first thought if you think folks here are advocating to merely get out of expenses during pregnancy and not from birth through age 18.
    1. Pre-birth, the mother has the right to make the unilateral decision that she does not wish to be a mother. The father does not have the right to make a unilateral decision that he does not wish to be a father.

    2. Post-Birth, both are currently responsible for the kid.

    3. Therefore we should either make both responsible pre birth (my preferred position) or we should make both equally capable of making a unilateral decision not to be a parent pre birth.



    As the NOW President put it so aptly: women should not have the ability to make unilateral decisions and then demand that men fund them.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Oh really. What exactly do you suppose he is going to be using to earn the money he will spend on 18-22 years of child support?

    His body. His choice.
    No, that is his money not his body.

    He can choose not to work and there will be nothing to take.

    You are really trying to make like there is some huge disparity in the treatment of men. But you are asking for actual equality in a system where there is no possible equality.

    A woman physically has to endure the pregnancy. Even the most loving and doting of husbands cannot "feel her pain" or suffer her potential life/death health issues.

    There is no equity in that situation.

    Perhaps the cheapest route is to get a reversible vasectomy or learn how to use a condom better ( and pick a good brand)

  9. #1099
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    It's coercion...if women are forced to engage in other choice than they might not have...if a crybaby mistreated man...doesn't want to be legally obligated.
    Please reconsider that comment. The best decisions are based upon a rational assessment of all pros and cons. The mere fact that a change in legal rights might lead a woman to a deeper assessment than is currently required does not necessarily lead to coercion. She still has a choice. The male states at a time when she still has an easy out, "I do not want a baby and if you elect to keep it then it will be entirely your responsibility." She still has the same options, the only difference is she cannot coerce HIM into supporting them.

    When coercion occurs there is NO choice, you do what you are told; i.e. say uncle or I will twist your arm off. The situation discussed is not coercion. The real coercion occurs when the woman says "I've decided to do this, now YOU are REQUIRED to do THAT because failure to do so will result in jail, garnishment, etc."

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Love your connection to UVVA...but when men or a woman feel compelled to negate rational differences between right and wrong...well, they most likely go to prison...and some are executed.
    Wow great argument in support of MY contention that the the REAL coercion occurs against the male.

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Equitable solutions aren't possible...in an opt-out law. Or shall I say...you've yet provided me with any evidence...only about why men think they've been wrong in the greater scheme of life. Unilateral control by women...well, call it the greatest misjustice ever perpetrated on "men"..ever...and it still won't the biological necessity in woman in controlling the outcome of a conception.
    Simply because you say "this is the way things are and they will never change" does not make it a truth. In fact, things are subject to change all the time or else we would not be seeing abortions rights at all because there would be no abortion rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Kid's here...society says...it can't take care of itself. Sooooooo, yes, there would be a huge hole. And I can name a whole bunch of people who are gonna scream bloody murder when women start lining up for government assistance to raise a child...because a poor mistreated man opted out. There'll be a big demand on taxpayer's pocketbook.
    Not automatically true. Many single parents currently take full care of their own kids. No welfare, no social support...on. Their. Own. As argued, it is entirely possible that a woman facing only "welfare" might choose to abort and wait to have a child until she can either find a man who wants one with her, or have one and take care of it herself. Saying that just because under current public policy she gets to "double dip" with child-support from the father and social welfare from the state is the status quo does not mean that changes can't correct or modify that situation for the better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    And Yes CA...we are a nation ruled by laws. And an Opt out would have to be legislated. Thus Yes ...a language would be necessary in order to enforce it.
    Of course it would have to be legislated. Just not HERE and right NOW. This is a debate; I am not going to write up a fake legislation example to support a hypothetical position. However, I did provide a citation to a wikipedia article wich might lead YOU to some current action in this regard. Read back a few pages and you might find it. (Post 1081 on page 109)
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 09-17-13 at 10:57 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1. Pre-birth, the mother has the right to make the unilateral decision that she does not wish to be a mother. The father does not have the right to make a unilateral decision that he does not wish to be a father.

    2. Post-Birth, both are currently responsible for the kid.

    3. Therefore we should either make both responsible pre birth (my preferred position) or we should make both equally capable of making a unilateral decision not to be a parent pre birth.



    As the NOW President put it so aptly: women should not have the ability to make unilateral decisions and then demand that men fund them.
    Let us get this PERFECTLY straight. A man does not "fund" the woman. He supports his child. It is kind of telling you do not see the difference.

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