View Poll Results: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to abort his baby?

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  • Yes, but only during the first 20 weeks, same as a woman.

    3 2.97%
  • Yes, but only during the initial period when a non-invasive technique works.

    0 0%
  • No, but he should have the right to be legally relieved of all responsibility.

    50 49.50%
  • NO! Only the woman has this right and he remains responsible.

    21 20.79%
  • I oppose all abortion, so neither have the right.

    22 21.78%
  • I Don't Know.

    5 4.95%
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Thread: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

  1. #991
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Hey, you're finally catching on. Now maybe you can understand why this comment made no sense in response to mine ...

    "Tell that to the people that think he isn't a father if he walks."

    He isn't a father if he walks ... but he is still a parent.

    Capiche?
    Except you're wrong. He is a father by producing a child.

  2. #992
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Men should be held responsible for their decision whether or not to become parents, just like women are. You're not talking about "responsibility", you're talking about coercion.
    I'm talking about being responsible for the child he helped create. You're saying everyone else is responsible for the consequences of their actions, except men who don't want to be. As far as it being coercion, all laws are a form of coercion. If I broke into a home can I argue that I consented only to breaking into the house, but not to being held legally responsible for my actions? If pregnancy is a consequence of my actions, I'm just as responsible for my actions as the girl is.

  3. #993
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    You keep saying that and ignoring every response. The fact of the matter is there are all sorts of situations in which single parent's bear full responsibility for a child, including support. This is not an unusual social situation, even when both parents are still alive. Furthermore, we are discussing the hypothetical of a man having a legal right to opt-out. A woman who can still afford to care for the child alone would still have one, a woman who realized she could not would not.

    As I mentioned to another member long ago in the thread, perhaps some adjustments in how women qualify for full welfare benefits would be necessary, perhaps not. Unilaterally deciding to have a child should not entail forced responsibility on an unwlling partner.
    Because you're trying to equate a man being allowed to opt out of being a father with a woman having an abortion. The two are not analogous because there is no child involved in an abortion; whereas there is a child involved in letting the deadbeat dad "opt out." The child makes the difference.

  4. #994
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Again...I disagree. It is impossible to create an "equal legal state"
    It is entirely possible. All it takes is a "public policy" change on a state per state basis. How realistic? Well, how realistic were any of the social changes of the 1960's if someone tried to bring them about in the 1950's??? Especially abortion rights?

    I respect your opinion, and understand your position concerning child welfare. However, IMO supporting the creation of dysfunctional families because of a woman's refusal to face facts seems more socially detrimental than allowing a male to legally opt-out.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Because you're trying to equate a man being allowed to opt out of being a father with a woman having an abortion. The two are not analogous because there is no child involved in an abortion; whereas there is a child involved in letting the deadbeat dad "opt out." The child makes the difference.
    There is still the life of the offspring and if you're going to hammer down on the idea that he must be responsible than your argument on abortion is suspect since you're allowing her to not be responsible.

  6. #996
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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Because you're trying to equate a man being allowed to opt out of being a father with a woman having an abortion. The two are not analogous because there is no child involved in an abortion; whereas there is a child involved in letting the deadbeat dad "opt out." The child makes the difference.
    You are misusing the term "deadbeat dad," since the man never wanted a child, made it plain to the woman, and then because of HER choice alone is now considered by YOU to be a "father" responsible for the unwanted results of his sperm donation.

    They are analogous because some men WANT to be a father and want the woman to carry to term. She gets to say NO, I don't feel like it. It's her body, and I am fine with that. I am not fine with her saying to a man who does NOT want a baby, "too bad cuz WE are having one," and then imposing on him for the rest of his life. This is bound to turn out badly.

    Yes, under such circumstances there is a child involved. One who may get some "money" out of "daddy" for a few years; but who will also face all the travails of a dysfunctional family. IMO it is better for a woman who recognizes her full responsibility to raise the child alone. It's better for all involved, including society.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    There is still the life of the offspring and if you're going to hammer down on the idea that he must be responsible than your argument on abortion is suspect since you're allowing her to not be responsible.
    Great, yet another distinction which eludes you ... ... there is no child involved in an abortion. There is a child left without support if men have an "opt out" clause.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    It is entirely possible. All it takes is a "public policy" change on a state per state basis. How realistic? Well, how realistic were any of the social changes of the 1960's if someone tried to bring them about in the 1950's??? Especially abortion rights?

    I respect your opinion, and understand your position concerning child welfare. However, IMO supporting the creation of dysfunctional families because of a woman's refusal to face facts seems more socially detrimental than allowing a male to legally opt-out.
    The woman's refusal to face the fact that she alone is the reason she's pregnant? What mental gymnastics you go through to make sure a guy doesn't have to sacrifice his money for a child. It's touching, really, how pro human you are.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Great, yet another distinction which eludes you ... ... there is no child involved in an abortion. There is a child left without support if men have an "opt out" clause.
    I said nothing about a child. What I said is that in even before birth there is still the life of the offspring, and if we are interested in making people be responsible in their lives she must carry it to term. Unless of course your responsibility argument has an exception for some reason.

    I'm going to guess that to you caring for the offspring before birth is not important, but after birth it's all that matters. It's kind of interesting logic if you ask me.
    Last edited by Henrin; 09-17-13 at 02:16 AM.

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    Re: Should a Man have an Absolute Right to Choose to Abort His Baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    You are misusing the term "deadbeat dad," since the man never wanted a child, made it plain to the woman, and then because of HER choice alone is now considered by YOU to be a "father" responsible for the unwanted results of his sperm donation.

    They are analogous because some men WANT to be a father and want the woman to carry to term. She gets to say NO, I don't feel like it. It's her body, and I am fine with that. I am not fine with her saying to a mad who does NOT want a baby, "too bad cuz WE are having one," and then imposing on him for the rest of his life.

    Yes, under such circumstances there is a child involved. One who may get some "money" out of "daddy" for a few years; but who will also face all the travails of a dysfunctional family. IMO it is better for a woman who recognizes her full responsibility to raise the child alone. It's better for all involved, including society.
    I don't see where I'm misusing the term at all. There are plenty of "deadbeat dads" who don't want their children. Just because they don't want them doesn't mean they're not deadbeat dads, it only means they don't want to own up to their responsibilities of raising their own child.

    And they are absolutely not analogous in that an abortion doesn't produce a child not being supported by his/her parents; whereas what you're pulling for does -- which is why it will never happen since the child is what makes the two situations completely different.

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