View Poll Results: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

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  • Yes he does

    17 39.53%
  • He's mostly right, but not on everything

    6 13.95%
  • Kinda...not always

    7 16.28%
  • Not really

    9 20.93%
  • No, stay out of our affairs!

    4 9.30%
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Thread: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed? [W:83]

  1. #31
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    No, that's what we call an Aunt Sally.
    So you have no argument.

    everyone knows an ant.....can't.....move a rubbertree plant but you've got....

    So you have no argument again.

    Iran is cut off from the world money supply? really? Did someone tell the Ayatollah?
    Have you seen the state of Iran's economy? Seen the massive devaluation of their currency? The mass reliance on barter for international trade? Yeah, Iran is cut off and it's showing.

    How is Hezbollah going to get the strength to take over Syria, perhaps you're unaware of what a power vacuum is, you know, the one you left after you had the US bombing both AL-Qaeda and Assad? You really don't know what's going on over there...
    You keep saying that, but you don't demonstrate it. How is Hezbollah going to fund such an endeavor without money and resupply? You have no specifics whatsoever.

    So you have no argument yet again.

    and if you think they're out their all by their lonesome....wow man you're a reaching.
    How am I reaching? Hamas's power base is in the Gaza strip. How are they going to provide any force when all they have is a relatively small group in Lebanon? How are they going to move troops, supplies and money out of the Gaza strip to Lebanon to be used in a Hezbollah push into Syria?

    I ask you these questions to see if you understand the topic, but you do not reply with anything that shows you even remotely understand the situation. You aren't even aware of the currency problems Iran is facing due to the sanctions. You keep making claims I don't understand, but you are completely unable to address my points or show you even remotely understand basic logistics.

    I never said IDF is afraid, Aunt Sally kicking up her heels again?
    Actually you argued just that

    "knowing that they be dead if they go into territory which the IDF has no problem bombing"

    The IDF and Mossad have no problems bombing Lebanon and carrying out assassinations via bombs in Lebanon. You're saying that Hamas leadership is hanging out in Lebanon because they're afraid to go where Israel will bomb them and thus arguing that Israel won't bomb them in Lebanon. Which is false.

    Where on earth did you pull this one out of?
    I said that Hezbollah is reliant upon Syria. You said this:

    Scratch this, reverse, than you've got it!

    Therefore you have argued that the reverse is actuyally true, that Syria is dependent upon Hezbollah. You need to start reading more carefully.

    I love how you keep making up arguments with no substantiated facts and only conjecture, poor conjecture and limited knowledge about the area and it's players.
    This coming from a guy who thinks that without Iran or Syria that Hezbollah could take over Syria.

    Yeah. This discussion is pretty much over, you don't even have the slightest grasp of the topic at all.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #32
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    I'm wondering how many Russian newspapers would be allowed to give Obama full access to write an op-ed. Just wow.

    How many Russian politicians would be trashing Putin as ours are doing to Obama?.
    Major Russian newspapers would have no problem with an Obama op-ed. As a matter of fact, they would fall over each other to get it. Too bad the idea had never occurred to the arrogant doofus.

    You are confusing the modern Russia with the USSR (not unlike Mr.Putin in a way). Yes, it is a fake democracy, and yes, actual threats to the power of Chosen Ones are "dealt with in a timely manner". But the USSR it is not. The borders are open; the radio jammers that surrounded Moscow had been sold for scrap long time ago; freedom of speech (well, in the capitals and on Internet) is virtually unlimited. You may recall that quite recently hundreds of thousands marched in Moscow with white ribbons and anti-Putin slogans - and only one (loudest) leader of the opposition had been arrested - not for organizing the marches, of course, on trumped-up felony charges - and then released and allowed to run for Mayor of Moscow, finishing strong second and acquiring all but official certificate of the People's Choice.

    The Putin's endless tenure is a dark and disappointing period in history of Russia. But it's nothing like the USSR. Not even close.

    The only reason Obama did not write an op-ed for Nezavisimaya, or Komsomolskaya Pravda -or better, for the liberal, anti-Putin, pro-American Novaya Gazeta -
    is that none of his advisers had thought about it. In contrast, Putin's advisers seem to be able to think on their feet.

  3. #33
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    In an Op-Ed in the New York Times, Putin bypassed diplomatic channels and spoke directly to the American peopl
    e.

    Among his arguments:

    -The UN must be allowed to work.
    -Attacking Syria will destabilize the region
    -The opposition used chemical weapons, not Assad
    -Diplomacy must be used instead of force
    -America is not exceptional



    Of course Putin has a point. The real question is - IS IT A VALID POINT?
    How much of his argument holds some water, and how much is BS?
    anyone who takes the time to write an Op-ed obviously has a point and is trying to bring others around to his point/points of view.

    Anyone who believes what Putin has to say should support him.

    Others should offer an alternative plan.

    Just being against his plan is not enough.
    Last edited by shrubnose; 09-12-13 at 08:31 AM.

  4. #34
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    So you have no argument.
    You mean your straw man? Nah, you keep it.



    So you have no argument again.
    A lack of comprehension on your part doesn't constitute a lack of argument on mine


    Have you seen the state of Iran's economy? Seen the massive devaluation of their currency? The mass reliance on barter for international trade? Yeah, Iran is cut off and it's showing.
    Oh dear god, ....

    Despite Being Economically Unfree, Iran's Economy Shows Resilience - Forbes

    You keep saying that, but you don't demonstrate it. How is Hezbollah going to fund such an endeavor without money and resupply? You have no specifics whatsoever.

    So you have no argument yet again.
    You act like they're broke and penniless, they've got stockpiles and mullah aplenty... sorry I don't happen to have their accountant on speed dial... Oh, another twist, I ask you for proof and you accuse me of not having any...

    How am I reaching? Hamas's power base is in the Gaza strip. How are they going to provide any force when all they have is a relatively small group in Lebanon? How are they going to move troops, supplies and money out of the Gaza strip to Lebanon to be used in a Hezbollah push into Syria?
    With leadership, support and alliances in Syria. Again what do I need to speak in tongues? The entire premise is based on the US blowing all the current power players to smithereens. A relatively small group could easily take control of certain stockpiles and munitions and presto chango, they're in business. I think you're in the throws of a conniption


    I ask you these questions to see if you understand the topic, but you do not reply with anything that shows you even remotely understand the situation. You aren't even aware of the currency problems Iran is facing due to the sanctions. You keep making claims I don't understand, but you are completely unable to address my points or show you even remotely understand basic logistics.

    I am the only one understanding the topic, you on the other hand are arguing from untenable positions demanding detailed specific answers about imaginary scenerio's that you keep concocting and adding on to or keep trying to send that old broad Aunt Sally my way...

    Actually you argued just that

    "knowing that they be dead if they go into territory which the IDF has no problem bombing"

    The IDF and Mossad have no problems bombing Lebanon and carrying out assassinations via bombs in Lebanon. You're saying that Hamas leadership is hanging out in Lebanon because they're afraid to go where Israel will bomb them and thus arguing that Israel won't bomb them in Lebanon. Which is false.
    Context, it's what's for dinner.


    I said that Hezbollah is reliant upon Syria. You said this:

    Scratch this, reverse, than you've got it!

    Therefore you have argued that the reverse is actuyally true, that Syria is dependent upon Hezbollah. You need to start reading more carefully.
    Again context, WOW, you really need to start comprehending what you read.

    This coming from a guy who thinks that without Iran or Syria that Hezbollah could take over Syria.
    Ladies and Gentleman, one more time, let's give Aunt Sally a hand...

    Yeah. This discussion is pretty much over, you don't even have the slightest grasp of the topic at all.
    Yeah, that's it buddy... Now run along you obvious child...

  5. #35
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    In an Op-Ed in the New York Times, Putin bypassed diplomatic channels and spoke directly to the American people.

    Among his arguments:

    -The UN must be allowed to work.
    -Attacking Syria will destabilize the region
    -The opposition used chemical weapons, not Assad
    -Diplomacy must be used instead of force
    -America is not exceptional

    How much of his argument holds some water, and how much is BS?
    Putin has the World status to be taken seriously and knows USA media is manipulated and as an ex-KGB officer knows the value of PR. He has used his position to speak directly to the USA citizens and what he said appears to be true, contrary to mainstream media CIA manipulated reports. We must get the Intelligence agencies out of our media to re-establish an objective press instead of propaganda.

  6. #36
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    In an Op-Ed in the New York Times, Putin bypassed diplomatic channels and spoke directly to the American people.

    Among his arguments:

    -The UN must be allowed to work.
    -Attacking Syria will destabilize the region
    -The opposition used chemical weapons, not Assad
    -Diplomacy must be used instead of force
    -America is not exceptional

    How much of his argument holds some water, and how much is BS?
    -The UN must be allowed to work. - ...says the leader of the country that routinely thwarts pretty much everything everybody else wants to do "just because".

    -Attacking Syria will destabilize the region - It's already a destabilized region.

    -The opposition used chemical weapons, not Assad - He doesn't know that. I doubt he even really believes it.

    -Diplomacy must be used instead of force - He's deathly afraid that our using force will expose him and his country to the world for being completely inept to do anything about it.

    -America is not exceptional - Comes off as a serious inferiority complex.

    How much of his argument holds some water, and how much is BS? - Maybe a few grains of truth, but for the most part lies, lies-by-omission, and a great deal of hypocrisy.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  7. #37
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Your "boy" Pootin, as you called Obama a "boy" is winning because of the enemy within, the GOP. Own it.
    Bush's fault in 3......2......

  8. #38
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Let us face it. Putin's media campaign won tremendously in this round over Syria. The western media through hibernation have allowed themselves to come to a point to actually want to air or press Putin. Even the poll here majorly says that he is correct and your own President is not.

    You are an open society. You welcome all. It seems Putin is using this vacuum here.

    But exactly where is the red line not to be crossed in the media though? Who will draw that line? Someone like Obama?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  9. #39
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Putin is full of it.

    Let's recap:

    "No one wants the United Nations to suffer the fate of the League of Nations, which collapsed because it lacked real leverage. This is possible if influential countries bypass the United Nations and take military action without Security Council authorization."


    The UN doesn't work when two security council members who have permanent voting rights refuse to allow any action against states no matter how badly those states are butchering their citizens. China is HORRIBLE candidate for the security council because China has internal projection problems in interfering with the matters of others in the fear that eventually its own bad behavior will cause others to interfere in Chinese matters. Thus, China refuses to vote for any real action and thus provides cover for state sanctioned wholesale mass slaughter. Russia is using it to give the finger to the West as Russian power declines in the world. Being able to prevent others from acting is in its self the power that a weaker nation has. Russia doesn't play by any of the world's rules when it feels like it and thus has no shame in using what should be measures to prevent war crimes to gain political standing. Essentially Putin is standing on the proverbial bodies of dead Syrians. As he did with Libya. And Russia on Kosovo.

    "A strike would increase violence and unleash a new wave of terrorism. It could undermine multilateral efforts to resolve the Iranian nuclear problem and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and further destabilize the Middle East and North Africa."


    There's a good chance that doing nothing will result in unleashing a new wave of terrorism. That's coming either way. As for the Iranian program, doing nothing gives Iran even more cover to get its nuclear program up and running. If we show our threats are meaningless, what does Iran have to fear? We become a paper tiger. Putin is 100% full of **** that this will have any impact on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. What's holding that up is the expansion of Jewish settlements and the fact that its core, Israel doesn't want peace. They get peace with the Palestinian, they have to deal with their own internal problems that could potentially rip Israel apart. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict allows Israel to brush these problems under the rug and let the parties focus on the Palestinians as the problem, not each other. Israel alone faces a welfare entitlement program that could destroy the state. And they do not even remotely have a good way of fixing it.

    I think it's funny how Putin promotes Democracy put actively tries to destroy it in Russia and FSU states. This guy is more hypocritical than some users here.

    "Might they not return to our countries with experience acquired in Syria?"

    And the longer the fight, the more hardened they get and the bigger threat they become, so therefore do nothing and prolong the fight? What kind of crap logic is that Putin?

    "From the outset, Russia has advocated peaceful dialogue enabling Syrians to develop a compromise plan for their own future. We are not protecting the Syrian government, but international law. "

    Which is largely more bull****. There is no ZOPA between the Rebels and Assad. Assad wants to stay in power. Rebels will never allow this. There can be no peaceful dialogue because each of them has a condition that excludes a potential zone of possible agreement. And yes, you are protecting the Syrian government. If you gave a **** about international law, you'd be pushing hard to remove Assad or his weapons. The transfer of chemical weapons is a sham because it cannot happen in a war zone. Putin is buying time for Assad and nothing more. The whole chemical weapons transfer plan is doomed from the start and was deliberately designed that way.

    "Under current international law, force is permitted only in self-defense or by the decision of the Security Council."

    Ignore the fact that Russia and China will veto any plan they don't like, even if it lets murderous rampages continue.

    "ut there is every reason to believe it was used not by the Syrian Army, but by opposition forces, to provoke intervention by their powerful foreign patrons, who would be siding with the fundamentalists. "

    Is that why we have emails from Syrian officials planning, coordinating and mopping up from the planned chemical attack? Heck, we have dialogue between them that has reactions from one who was amazed at the damage it did, way more than he expected. Syrian rebels did this? Only if you're blind, deaf and dumb....or have an ulterior motive for lying.

    "Reports that militants are preparing another attack this time against Israel cannot be ignored."

    This is the stupidest thing I have read so far. Attacking Israel would unleash the might of the Israeli Air Force who has no problems bombing the crap out of people it believes to be terrorists. The rebels are already getting pounded by Assad's subpar air force. They will get demolished by a proper air force.

    I can't keep reading this. It's that bad.

    Seriously, if you take that article seriously, you are extremely ignorant.
    I agree completely. This is not Putin as a benevolent wise world leader. This is Putin as an arrogant bastadge given the opportunity to grind his thumb in Obamas eye.

  10. #40
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Bush's fault in 3......2......
    Bush has been a Statesman since leaving office, something that cannot be said for the rest of his warmongering clowns, and he is to be praised. Try again?

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