View Poll Results: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

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  • Yes he does

    17 39.53%
  • He's mostly right, but not on everything

    6 13.95%
  • Kinda...not always

    7 16.28%
  • Not really

    9 20.93%
  • No, stay out of our affairs!

    4 9.30%
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Thread: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed? [W:83]

  1. #21
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    In an Op-Ed in the New York Times, Putin bypassed diplomatic channels and spoke directly to the American people.

    Among his arguments:

    -The UN must be allowed to work.
    -Attacking Syria will destabilize the region
    -The opposition used chemical weapons, not Assad
    -Diplomacy must be used instead of force
    -America is not exceptional

    How much of his argument holds some water, and how much is BS?
    The UN is pretty much useless in these sorts of things, as they have demonstrated time and again.
    The region is pretty unstable as it is, but obviously any form of US intervention in the Syrian civil war carries great risks. In this Putin is at least more right than the Obama-administration whose assurances that this would be a strictly limited operation without excessive risks is either disingenuous or just plain stupid.
    At this point I see no conclusive evidence for who used chemical weapons where. Putin's assertion that it was the rebels is as unproven as Obama's assertion that it was Assad.
    On the whole, it is preferable to use diplomacy rather than military force, if essential goals can be reached this way. But diplomacy and military force are both tools. It's the policy that matters.
    One can conduct a whole semantic discussion about American "exceptionalism". I'm not a big fan of the term. But the fact is that the US is an exceptional global superpower and has been - on the whole - an exceptional force for progress and good in the World.

  2. #22
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Among his arguments:

    -The UN must be allowed to work.
    The UN cannot function by virtue of the Security Council and its sources of funding. The WTO and IMF have disproportionately more power than the entire UN has now, and their funders are primarily the financial elites in western European countries. They control the stakes now, not the UN.

    -Attacking Syria will destabilize the region
    True, but that's the point. It's fairly evident now that the Middle East is being restructured, economically and culturally, by the globalists. They won't be satisfied until every region on this planet has come under their economic influence and everyone is dependent on their systems for survival.

    -The opposition used chemical weapons, not Assad
    It doesn't really matter at this point, to be perfectly honest. The invasion is going to happen and for the first time Americans are going to see that popularity polls have zero relevance because it is the elites who control the government now and not them.

    -Diplomacy must be used instead of force
    Our history demonstrates that we are experts are diplomacy when we want to be. Right now our hawkish foreign policy combined with globalist interventions clearly shows that we are not interested in diplomatic solutions. Diplomacy is foreplay to war at this point.

    -America is not exceptional
    This part is true. The globalist financial elites are showing us that America is disposable. They will bankrupt this entire nation and keep the money for themselves in pursuit of their global hegemony. They're just playing on American manifest destiny and nationalism to make it happen.

    How much of his argument holds some water, and how much is BS?
    Putin's points are valid, though they will come under fire simply because of who he is. Russia and China are the two places on Earth that are currently immune to the influences of western financial elites, which is why our media has next to nothing good to say about them. They don't want to talk about how China's Communism has transformed them from a dirtball to a 10%-growth-per-year industrial economy capable of competing with the best of them; or how the experiment of Democracy in Russia is failing and it's going to continue to oppose our ideology about the way the world should be run.

    Putin is a power hungry dictator in the making, but in this matter he knows what he's talking about. It will mostly fall on deaf ears though; if you say the word "Russian" to the average American they still think "Commie" right away.
    Last edited by Northern Light; 09-12-13 at 06:43 AM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    And that came from where exactly? Do you regularly rely on out of left field arguments?

    Without Assad, Hezbollah will wither away. So how does it logically flow that removing Assad strengthens Hezbollah to the point they could rule a country?
    Left field? It's front and center. You just said bomb both the rebels, who are Al Qaeda why you're seemingly supporting them, I do not know, and Assad. You bomb them both you have a power vacuum and whose the only group organized and has the muscle to fill in? Hezbollah.

    Second. who do you think rules Lebanon? Hezbollah.

    Further Hezbollah has a relationship, albeit strained with Hamas. You don't think they'd work something out temporarily or divide the nation amongst them?

    I mean seriously, all your talk about logic and you haven't walked this one through?

  4. #24
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Left field? It's front and center. You just said bomb both the rebels, who are Al Qaeda why you're seemingly supporting them,
    Did you even read what I wrote? How is bombing Al Qaeda supporting them? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It's like saying the cops are supporting criminals by shooting and killing them.

    I do not know, and Assad. You bomb them both you have a power vacuum and whose the only group organized and has the muscle to fill in? Hezbollah.
    And how is Hezbollah going to do that? Without Syrian support, they have very little actual power. No resupply, poor training, no money. Without Assad Hezbollah withers away.

    Second. who do you think rules Lebanon? Hezbollah.
    This is not accurate. Hezbollah has a political wing, but it is hardly what you claim it to be.

    Further Hezbollah has a relationship, albeit strained with Hamas. You don't think they'd work something out temporarily or divide the nation amongst them?
    Hamas is limited to the Gaza strip. Where are you even coming from with this?

    I mean seriously, all your talk about logic and you haven't walked this one through?
    Have you? You don't seem to get that Hezbollah is dependent on Syria. And you don't seem to know where Hamas operates form. And at the same time you think that by wanting to bomb and kill AQ, I'm supporting them.

    Nothing you've said makes any sense whatsoever.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  5. #25
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Did you even read what I wrote? How is bombing Al Qaeda supporting them? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It's like saying the cops are supporting criminals by shooting and killing them.
    Yeah, I read what you wrote, did you read what I wrote? If you did you'll recall the word "seemingly"



    And how is Hezbollah going to do that? Without Syrian support, they have very little actual power. No resupply, poor training, no money. Without Assad Hezbollah withers away.
    Well for one I don't know where you get your intel, but I know that Hezbollah had this little skirmish with Israel for oh I don't know a very looooooong time, even claimed they won a few years back. I also don't think you seem to understand Hezbollah's connection to fellow Shiite Iran? No, forgot about them? Yeah, it appears you did. Don't thinkk Iran would love a little puppet to play with?

    This is not accurate. Hezbollah has a political wing, but it is hardly what you claim it to be.
    Oh but it is, but I'll just say "nah nah nah booboo you're wrong!" too and move on...


    Hamas is limited to the Gaza strip. Where are you even coming from with this?
    Now, I am certain you haven't a clue, most of Hamas senior leadership resides in Syria, knowing that they be dead if they go into territory which the IDF has no problem bombing


    Have you? You don't seem to get that Hezbollah is dependent on Syria. And you don't seem to know where Hamas operates form. And at the same time you think that by wanting to bomb and kill AQ, I'm supporting them.
    Scratch this, reverse, than you've got it!

    Nothing you've said makes any sense whatsoever.
    No, to a person who thinks he has the pulse of the ME but doesn't know his butt from a bumpersticker, I don't suppose any of this would...

  6. #26
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Yeah, I read what you wrote, did you read what I wrote? If you did you'll recall the word "seemingly"
    Doesn't matter. Your argument is the same as saying cops support criminals by killing them. Saying I'm seemingly support AQ by killing them makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

    Well for one I don't know where you get your intel, but I know that Hezbollah had this little skirmish with Israel for oh I don't know a very looooooong time, even claimed they won a few years back.
    And where did they get all of those weapons, money and training? Iran and Syria. And it all came through Syria. Without Syria they will wither.

    I also don't think you seem to understand Hezbollah's connection to fellow Shiite Iran? No, forgot about them? Yeah, it appears you did. Don't thinkk Iran would love a little puppet to play with?
    And how exactly do you think Iran is going to keep Hezbollah around without Syria? Especially now that Iran is entirely cut off from the world's money system. Please elaborate as to how you think this will work. A organization dependent on its benefactors, one who is gone and the other who no longer can fund it and has lost the transit path for delivering goods. Please, tell me how Hezbollah is going to get the strength to take over Syria. Let's your plan for how Hezbollah cut off from its financing and weapons will magically gather strength.

    Now, I am certain you haven't a clue, most of Hamas senior leadership resides in Syria, knowing that they be dead if they go into territory which the IDF has no problem bombing
    And that is suppose to be a threat how? Leadership is nothing without manpower behind it. Hence why I made the comment about your seemingly large unawareness about Hamas. Also, if you think the IDF or Mossad is afraid of hitting them in Lebanon, you seriously underestimate the Israelis.

    Scratch this, reverse, than you've got it!
    Uh uh. Syria depends on Hezbollah giving them weapons and money? lol.

    No, to a person who thinks he has the pulse of the ME but doesn't know his butt from a bumpersticker, I don't suppose any of this would...
    Uh huh. Keep telling yourself that.

    I'd love to see your magical plan for how Hezbollah gets weapons and money without Syria and Iran but I don't think you understand the topic at all.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  7. #27
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Sorta of. In the process of bombing Assad, we lob a few missiles towards AQ related fighter cells. They're already afraid we're going to bomb them as well. We should make sure their fears are realized.
    In response to me asking if we should help Assad rid himself of the terrorists.

    Sorta is sorta seemingly...

  8. #28
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Doesn't matter. Your argument is the same as saying cops support criminals by killing them. Saying I'm seemingly support AQ by killing them makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
    No, that's what we call an Aunt Sally...




    And where did they get all of those weapons, money and training? Iran and Syria. And it all came through Syria. Without Syria they will wither.
    everyone knows an ant.....can't.....move a rubbertree plant but you've got....



    And how exactly do you think Iran is going to keep Hezbollah around without Syria? Especially now that Iran is entirely cut off from the world's money system. Please elaborate as to how you think this will work. A organization dependent on its benefactors, one who is gone and the other who no longer can fund it and has lost the transit path for delivering goods. Please, tell me how Hezbollah is going to get the strength to take over Syria. Let's your plan for how Hezbollah cut off from its financing and weapons will magically gather strength.
    Iran is cut off from the world money supply? really? Did someone tell the Ayatollah? How is Hezbollah going to get the strength to take over Syria, perhaps you're unaware of what a power vacuum is, you know, the one you left after you had the US bombing both AL-Qaeda and Assad? You really don't know what's going on over there...



    And that is suppose to be a threat how? Leadership is nothing without manpower behind it. Hence why I made the comment about your seemingly large unawareness about Hamas. Also, if you think the IDF or Mossad is afraid of hitting them in Lebanon, you seriously underestimate the Israelis.
    and if you think they're out their all by their lonesome....wow man you're a reaching...

    I never said IDF is afraid, Aunt Sally kicking up her heels again?

    Uh uh. Syria depends on Hezbollah giving them weapons and money? lol.
    Where on earth did you pull this one out of?


    Uh huh. Keep telling yourself that.

    I'd love to see your magical plan for how Hezbollah gets weapons and money without Syria and Iran but I don't think you understand the topic at all.
    I love how you keep making up arguments with no substantiated facts and only conjecture, poor conjecture and limited knowledge about the area and it's players.

  9. #29
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    In response to me asking if we should help Assad rid himself of the terrorists.

    Sorta is sorta seemingly...
    Sorta was in the context of terrorists. You said terrorists as a whole with no separation between secular fighters and Islamists. I said sorta because I only want to bomb the AQ related groups and NOT the secular fighters.

    Please read more carefully in the future. That way you can avoid using the logic that dictates you support people by killing them.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  10. #30
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    Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    In an Op-Ed in the New York Times, Putin bypassed diplomatic channels and spoke directly to the American people.

    Among his arguments:

    -The UN must be allowed to work.
    -Attacking Syria will destabilize the region
    -The opposition used chemical weapons, not Assad
    -Diplomacy must be used instead of force
    -America is not exceptional

    How much of his argument holds some water, and how much is BS?
    For someone like me (a Pole born and raised in Moscow), the most jarring sentences of this address are in the very beginning. "We stood against each other during the cold war". This "we" equates Russia with the USSR, and turns every Russian into a Soviet. No, Mr.Putin: You, the illegitimate totalitarian Communist regime and the monstrous KGB machine in which you, personally, were a tiny happy cog - "stood against America". Russians and other captive nations ("we") had no voice and no choice.

    How someone who refuses to make this absolutely crucial distinction - while claiming to a leader of the new, democratic, liberal, even God-fearing (see his last sentence) Russia - can be taken seriously?

    And then, of course, the claim that "We are not protecting the Syrian government, but international law". Please.

    But other than that, I have to admit that "speaking directly to American people" - while saying obvious things the American people are repeating themselves, over and over - was a strong move.
    Last edited by Cyrylek; 09-12-13 at 08:01 AM.

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