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How Important is Space Exploration as a National Interest?

How Important is Space Exploration as a National Interest?

  • Very, we should be sending men back to the moon, to Mars, and beyond

    Votes: 39 67.2%

  • Somewhat, but we should stick to sending probes

    Votes: 4 6.9%

  • Not very important now, maybe in the future

    Votes: 9 15.5%

  • Not at all, it's a distraction and a waste of money

    Votes: 9 15.5%

  • Space is boring.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    58
MMC said:
Read back into the thread little. Already a company is talking about mining resources. They released in Jan of 2012. Also Water is the key issue. Which now they know asteroids have it. So that is a going to be major resource.
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Excuse me if I'm skeptical of the benefit of spending millions of dollars to launch a shuttle in the air to get a glass of water or some iron. I definitely do not see the cost benefit of that.
 
Your Star said:
Space is the future of our species, both on Earth and in the stars.

One day our Sun will die, and if we don't learn how to travel to far off worlds and colonize then our species will be done for. This is also assuming that we don't destroy our planet or kill ourselves off before that day. Or some other catastrophic event doesn't happen as well; like an asteroid hitting us.
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Reapers, dude... :shock:... ****ing Reapers!!!!
 
MarineTpartier said:
Im not talking about satellites that are for space exploration. I'm talking about communication satellites. And I'm all for the private sector going to space.

Mining asteroids? LOL. Show me where that is producing anything besides trivial amounts of resources.
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I think he meant that there are private companies seeking to engage in asteroid mining. Planetary Resources is due to send out their first Arkyd satellites next year.

Edit: There are others like Shackelton Energy, Lunar Express, etc. But Planetary Resources had an enormous amount of resources behind it and name recognition so its efforts are taken the most seriously.
 
TiredOfLife said:
There's no reason to make shoes for children too poor to buy them. Well actually there is a good reason, but that's not Capitalism.
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False analogy. And simply wrong. 1: Making shoes is a hell of a lot cheaper than space exploration. 2: Making shoes for poor people will give a company a good image which in turn will increase their sales. So yeah, it is based on capitalism.
 
Kal'Stang said:
False analogy. And simply wrong. 1: Making shoes is a hell of a lot cheaper than space exploration. 2: Making shoes for poor people will give a company a good image which in turn will increase their sales. So yeah, it is based on capitalism.
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People don't buy $200 sneakers and $400 pumps that look the same as what poor people are getting for cheap. And remember, these kids are too poor to buy any shoes. You can make them and give them away but that isn't capitalism either. The rules, the actual laws in the US, say you can spend money on whatever is designed to increase your profits. It can't just be because you are such a generous guy. That you can do with your own money.

Dodge v. Ford Motor Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Sherman123 said:
It's worth every penny and then some---and we spend very few pennies on it as it is. The funding we put into scientific research and space will pay more dividends than the enormous sums we waste at HUD or on Farm Subsidies. With minimal funding we've made huge progress in facilitating the development of an embryonic commercial space program that could vastly increase the quality of our civilization and yield untold billions. We should have accomplished so much more than we have but a combination of Cold War sensibilities, strangulating Congressional oversight, and lack of funding priority set us back decades. Now the high frontier is alive with excitement again and now is not the time to pull back.
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I good with eliminating HUD or Ag or NASA. So long as something goes.
 
AngryOldGuy said:
and it is ONLY pennies! I'm too bored to repost the the pie chart that shows NASA budget is only like .07% of the Federal budget... Heck we could trim 10% off the 4 largest entitlement programs, chuck that into NASA's budget appoint someone to lead it that didn't have 'outreach' as a mission goal and in less than five years be getting daily morning show broadcasts from the colony on Mars ;)

IMG][/QUOTE]

15bn a year is not pennies, or rather its 15,000,000,000,000 pennies.
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AngryOldGuy said:
Where's the profit in that?
10sauqr.jpg
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Mining asteroids for rare metals. Tourism, zero g manufacturing. If its wasn't profitable, Virgin Galactic wouldn't be spending billions on it. Branson didn't get rich wasting money.
 
jonny5 said:
Virgin Galactic wouldn't be spending billions on it.
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Sorry buddie I've already shown that Space-X has yet to show a real profit lofting stuff into orbit,
I'm too bored to hunt down the validity of your claim that Virgin Galactic is already showing a healthy profit
with their space Tourism business, please gimme a link I'd like to price a flight to Saturn to get a look at the rings for myself :tongue4:
 
jonny5 said:
15bn
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I know millions billions trillions in no time it all just runs together
The approximate distance to Proxima Centauri is 24,689,699,219,367 in no time it all gets a tad crazy

24npoxv.jpg
 
Surtr said:
Depends on how much iron is in it. You would also have to locate, travel to, and safely land on something that, on average, is moving at a speed of around 15 miles per second. There's also the issue if debris striking the equipment, vessel, and personnel, if human beings are even present, should such a thing ever become possible. It's an extremely dangerous environment.
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What happens when a space ship filled with heavy iron enters the earths atmosphere again?
 
Mason66 said:
What happens when a space ship filled with heavy iron enters the earths atmosphere again?
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You're thing of a space shuttle carrying human beings and fragile cargo. Iron ore doesn't suffer injury or pain, and it isn't fragile. We can organize drops where we simply launch unmanned containers into the ocean for pickup by cargo ships.
 
We have to agree first on what exactly is " a national interest".

Is it (1) our best approximation of cumulative "interests" of actual, real people who constitute "the nation" - or is it (2) some mystical idea demanding that those real people keep making blind sacrifices to promote "the nation's" glory and dominance?

I am definitely inclined to endorse (1) over (2).

I am all for space exploration, but is it in our "national interest". to make a citizen of this nation who could not care less about space probes orbiting Jupiter pay for all that orbiting and probing?

It's not like he is given options, as a taxpayer...Nothing speaks louder about the arrogance of self-appointed elites than this "I have a grandiose dream, you pay for it" attitude.

If we care about our long-term chances - not as an abstract "great nation", but as a livable liberal democracy - no, it is not in our "national interests".

Leave space projects (beyond the unavoidable defense infrastructure) to the likes of Jeff Bezos and Robert Bigelow, to the big private money. At least until we pay off the national debt, solve all our serious structural problems, replace every blighted neighborhood with a fragrant garden - and then totally run out of ideas, what to do with our uncontrollably growing budget surpluses.
 
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Mason66 said:
What happens when a space ship filled with heavy iron enters the earths atmosphere again?
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It makes a nicey nice landing because it is equipped with a device that renders it weightless, anti-gravity slash warp drive. HaaaaH dude I dismissed the inane concept of mining for iron in outer space (cuz its silly) but stop just for one nanosecond and consider this...

Think of the size and weights of the vehicles we've designed to re-enter the earth's atmosphere (thus far)
Which one still holds the record re-entry speed? (Apollo command module) 25K
and the Shuttle which is goin' real slow creeps down from orbital speeds 17.5k
so how ARE you gonna plop down a monstrously large Iron cargo freighter without it becoming a fireball?
spacecraft 'Hayabusa' - spectacular re-entry
 
AngryOldGuy said:
Sorry buddie I've already shown that Space-X has yet to show a real profit lofting stuff into orbit,
I'm too bored to hunt down the validity of your claim that Virgin Galactic is already showing a healthy profit
with their space Tourism business, please gimme a link I'd like to price a flight to Saturn to get a look at the rings for myself :tongue4:
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No need to apologize. Nowhere did I claim they were currently profitable. What I claimed was they wouldn't invest their own money unless they expected to see a profit. However

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/sales-are-rocketing-at-virgin-galactic-222290/

Few companies can boast revenues worth tens of millions of dollars before actually delivering the "ultimate experience" promised - but that is what Virgin Galactic has achieved with its sales pitch that fulfils the dreams of the Apollo generation's wealthier members to carry them beyond the Earth.
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angryoldguy said:
i know millions billions trillions in no time it all just runs together
the approximate distance to proxima centauri is 24,689,699,219,367 in no time it all gets a tad crazy
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one_bill_A.jpg

x15 (those are pennies, a lot of them)
 
Cyrylek said:
We have to agree first on what exactly is " a national interest".

Is it (1) our best approximation of cumulative "interests" of actual, real people who constitute "the nation" - or is it (2) some mystical idea demanding that those real people keep making blind sacrifices to promote "the nation's" glory and dominance?

I am definitely inclined to endorse (1) over (2).

I am all for space exploration, but is it in our "national interest". to make a citizen of this nation who could not care less about space probes orbiting Jupiter pay for all that orbiting and probing?

It's not like he is given options, as a taxpayer...Nothing speaks louder about the arrogance of self-appointed elites than this "I have a grandiose dream, you pay for it" attitude.

If we care about our long-term chances - not as an abstract "great nation", but as a livable liberal democracy - no, it is not in our "national interests".

Leave space projects (beyond the unavoidable defense infrastructure) to the likes of Jeff Bezos and Robert Bigelow, to the big private money. At least until we pay off the national debt, solve all our serious structural problems, replace every blighted neighborhood with a fragrant garden - and then totally run out of ideas, what to do with our uncontrollably growing budget surpluses.
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And what happens when Russia is the only country that has vehicles that can get to space and they control the satellites and everything else up there.

From what we have seen recently, Russia is not anxious to work with the US so I would consider it in the national interest to keep a presence in space.
 
jonny that's a buncha Zinc

until 1982, when the composition was changed to 97.5 percent zinc and 2.5 percent copper (copper-plated zinc)
 
Mason66 said:
Russia is quite anxious to work for the US so I would consider it in their national interest to keep hauling our stuff too space.
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I agree but just know that our military keeps them lil rockets ready at Vandenburg to throw stuff up there We don't farm out sending up our spy satellites to the Rooskie's (maybe that's next with Obama in charge)
 
AngryOldGuy said:
I agree but just know that our military keeps them lil rockets ready at Vandenburg to throw stuff up there We don't farm out sending up our spy satellites to the Rooskie's (maybe that's next with Obama in charge)
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Well rockets cost money so ther will come a time when they will not be used.

Obama killed Kennedys space program so what will be next?
 
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