View Poll Results: Should Gun Violence be a Homeland Security Issue?

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  • Yes

    6 13.64%
  • No

    38 86.36%
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Thread: Should Gun Violence be a Homeland Security Issue?

  1. #71
    Be different, be honest
    EdwinWillers's Avatar
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    12-25-15 @ 03:21 PM

    Re: Should Gun Violence be a Homeland Security Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    You have not even recognized some of the suggestions for compromise in my post. Please tell me why they cannot be considered. You should listen to the linked podcast, you would hear valid opinions that seldom get attention from either side of the issue and it's a pretty good in any case.
    Compromise is fine if there's a reason to compromise. In this case, there isn't. Frankly, we've compromised enough - and most of the problem we face now on this issue is the ongoing call to "compromise." I've recognized your suggestions. I reject them all as patently unnecessary and more of the same, albeit a tad watered down from the normal gun control advocate's proposals.

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    First what you get wrong about my argument:
    I perfectly understood your argument - I've heard it and the gross generalizations which attend it repeated far too often.

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    -I don't want your gun taken away from you, and I don't blame you and other responsible gun owners for our problem.
    -I don't refute that violence is steadily declining, including gun violence
    -I have listened to the arguments and I know why people choose to carry guns
    -Liberals do not want gun control. Normal people want to see the problems surrounding guns addressed.
    Liberals most certainly do want gun control. They've voiced it ad-nauseum. The leaders of this charge have voiced their desire to ban guns altogether. I don't see how it's possible to be unaware of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    But yes, people are irrational! They are irrational when they want to ban a thing that human nature says is impossible to ban, whether that's pot, liquor, or guns. They are also irrational when they refuse to compromise on anything because it's a free country and we can't make you.
    I'm saying the gun control arguments are irrational. They aren't logical. They aren't even based on facts, but instead are largely ideological and emotionally based.

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    You know the thing about liberty? It is not the same for everyone. In fact, your liberty can come at the cost of my liberty, and vice versa. So when you decry your liberties being threatened, others consider their liberties being held hostage by you. That is why you cannot be an absolutist and live in a civilization. There is a trade-off with sharing society with other people.
    One man's right is another man's obligation. I recognize that. Do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    By the way, if gun-control freaks are guilty of forgetting statistics, so are gun nuts. You think that because gun violence is declining in the US that there is no problem? Of all the countries in the world, it is the developed country with the worst record on gun violence. That's the same whether it's ranked by suicide, homicide, unintentional, or total. You might be safer in Guatemala, Honduras, or El Salvador, but that's nothing to write home about.

    And that is just per capita. We are also the 3rd most populous country in the world. That is a lot of bodies. If you cannot see that there is a problem, then you cannot begin to address a solution.
    I never said; neither did I ever infer there was no problem. But let's go with your statistic here. What is the cause of all that "gun violence?" If the solution be - as you suggest - the existence of guns, then the banning of guns would curtail the violence - by extension. That *is* your premise, isn't it, that guns are the problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    How about another sadly forgotten statistic? If you have a gun in your house for your own defense? It's unfortunate, then, that those who do and their families are statistically more likely to die from a gun in their home. I'm not denying that they might be careful and responsible. By having a gun in their house they are statistically more likely to die from one. A person might have a gun to protect their wife or girlfriend, but the sad fact is that by living in that house, women are statistically much more likely to die from it than men are.
    Well let's think about this a tad. The existence of guns in homes increases the likelihood of dying by gun. Couldn't the same be said of ladders?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Yes, women are more likely to die in the home by a gun, a fact you should remember when you derail the topic by shooting back with "liberals kill more babies than guns kill people." I am not going to argue with you about the morality, or realities, or science of abortion. I'm fine with just letting you know that it's pretty misogynistic to accuse women of worse atrocities than mass-murderers. At the very least, you're probably just not going to be that popular with the ladies if you share that opinion with them.
    Bringing up abortion was no derail. I made a perfectly valid point and in the process exposed the gross hypocrisy behind all the feigned "concern" over the lives of innocent others. Moreover, there's nothing misogynistic about despising infanticide. And FWIW, it's this sort of illogical comeback that destroys what little credibility the anti-gun lobby thinks they enjoy.

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    And when you rank deaths by causes, satisfied that heart attacks and strokes and cancer and car accidents kill more people, you are ignoring the obvious. Only violent acts and suicides are the direct result of a person wanting to hurt another person, for which we as a society are entitled to demand justice, in the individual act and at large. Hiding behind a list of hundreds of thousands of sick, injured, and diseased people to satisfy that a lesser cause of death is unimportant in the cosmic sense is pathetic.
    Well I'll give you the point about sickness and disease not being the same as violent and accidental deaths. But answer me this - does it matter *that* a person dies, or merely *how* they die before human compassion be permitted to kick in?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    By the way, if you want to see where guns from places like NYC come from, look at places like Virginia. The reason gun violence cannot simply be a state and local matter is because people don't have to stay on one side of the country.

    It used to be that the US thought of gun owners as normal people, hunters, defenders of their lives and property, and willing to fight for their country when the time called.

    Unfortunately now those earnest people are overshadowed by a vocal few militant absolutists who are more likely to threaten revolt against their country at the slightest provocation, dismiss any discussion as offensive to liberty, and would rather see dozens of kids killed in cold blood before they consider any compromise. They are like SUV drivers that everyone on the road can't stand, willing to pose a danger to others if it offers them the slightest degree of protection, because it's their kids, g*d d****t. That means no taxes, no limits on ammo, no waiting periods, no background checks at gun shows. They are going to piss off so many people that eventually they will completely turn public opinion against them.

    You can keep your guns and your rights, but please tell the people that will never listen to reason to let up before they ruin it for everyone.
    The gun-control lobby routinely and repeatedly vilifies, demonizes, disparages, and ridicules gun owners and you have the gall to say it's our own fault we're no longer thought of as "normal?"
    Who chimes "No Absolutes!" chimes absolutely.

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  2. #72
    Advisor polisciguy's Avatar
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    12-27-17 @ 11:54 AM

    Re: Should Gun Violence be a Homeland Security Issue?

    Yes and no. Yes, insofar as Homeland takes action outside of legislation banning guns. No in that our country is a violent one and the problem is with the people. We have a responsibility to end it.
    Be skeptical of anyone who wears a political label - party or ideology - with pride. Most of our problems are because people love to "debate" (it isn't debate, but they pretend it is), but are not interested in developing solutions. Solutions require empathy, thought, and compromise, and most folks aren't interested.

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