View Poll Results: Should Gun Violence be a Homeland Security Issue?

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    6 13.64%
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Thread: Should Gun Violence be a Homeland Security Issue?

  1. #31
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    Re: Should Gun Violence be a Homeland Security Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Generalize to violence in general and not just gun violence and I'd agree.
    Ok, fair enough. But this report from the FBI shows 2/3 of homicides were by firearm. So in any case any action on reducing violence would have to seriously look at guns.

    FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

    Also interesting is that according to those stats the murder rate is consistently falling. I just wonder if it's falling fast enough and if it continues.

  2. #32
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    Re: Should Gun Violence be a Homeland Security Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    False comparison. I'm talking about identifying and preventing people that want to murder other people. If it's ideological we call it terrorism, but if it isn't then it falls into this pool of crime in the US that is less sensationalized.
    In your OP, you only wrote of “gun violence”, and wrote of guns killing rather than people killing, and you included the statistic that 2/3 of the deaths were suicides.

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    Re: Should Gun Violence be a Homeland Security Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    False comparison. I'm talking about identifying and preventing people that want to murder other people. If it's ideological we call it terrorism, but if it isn't then it falls into this pool of crime in the US that is less sensationalized.
    we are not allowed to do that it is called profiling


    NY did it and it was very successful in preventing crime but now you liberals want to do away with it because you don't like who they identified as criminals and preventing them from committing crime

  4. #34
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    Re: Should Gun Violence be a Homeland Security Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    I personally do not think harshness of penalties is necessarily the answer. I think instead we should be rehabilitating those that break the law. In our current system we for the most part lock them away with other like minded people who often prey on one another and expect them to come out model citizens. I feel we should put education and motivational tools in place to help them understandwhy their behavior is unacceptable instead of just telling them that it is and then making their life hell. Until they understand the why I believe all harsher sentences would do is encourage them not to get caught and not discourage the crime.
    Rehabilitation would be great. But part of rehabilitation would require making it to where their records would not haunt them their entire lives as part of the reason for recidivism is them not being able to make it on the outside due to society treating them like pariahs.
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    Re: Should Gun Violence be a Homeland Security Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Those are...all actually very good ideas. It's debatable if harsher penalties are a deterrence, but you are right about the rest. If you noticed, I haven't once vilified guns in this thread, but gun violence, which you seem to agree requires a response.

    I name you Assistant Director if this baby ever gets off the ground.
    With our governments track record? bye bye guns given half a chance.

    But yes, you have vilified guns in the OP. Otherwise you shouldn't have specifically mentioned them but kept your arguement towards violent crimes period.
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    Re: Should Gun Violence be a Homeland Security Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    In your OP, you only wrote of “gun violence”, and wrote of guns killing rather than people killing, and you included the statistic that 2/3 of the deaths were suicides.

    It's called a metonym: the substitution of a specific, closely related term to stand for the thing actually meant ("the crown" stands for the king). In this case the gun stands for the person that used the gun. I'm aware that guns don't grow cartoon arms and feet while we're no watching that lets them pull their own triggers, although that would liven up the discussion.

    And suicides still count towards the number of deaths caused by them.

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    Re: Should Gun Violence be a Homeland Security Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    With our governments track record? bye bye guns given half a chance.

    But yes, you have vilified guns in the OP. Otherwise you shouldn't have specifically mentioned them but kept your arguement towards violent crimes period.
    The FBI shows 2/3 of homicides were by firearm. So in any case any action on reducing violence would have to seriously look at guns.

    FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

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    Re: Should Gun Violence be a Homeland Security Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    The FBI shows 2/3 of homicides were by firearm. So in any case any action on reducing violence would have to seriously look at guns.

    FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 8
    Irrelevent. There was a person in each and every single one of those that pulled the trigger. No gun points itself and pulls its own trigger. Focus on the people, not the object. Focusing on the gun in the end does only 2 things.

    1: It puts a burden, or removes Rights depending on the law, from law abiding citizens exercising their rights. Which far out number the amount of homicides by guns.

    2: It creates a black market which will allow criminals to be armed against innocent people who will not be armed due to those laws. Even if the law just raises taxes it will affect some law abiding citizen putting guns out of their reach.
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    Re: Should Gun Violence be a Homeland Security Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Irrelevent. There was a person in each and every single one of those that pulled the trigger. No gun points itself and pulls its own trigger. Focus on the people, not the object. Focusing on the gun in the end does only 2 things.

    1: It puts a burden, or removes Rights depending on the law, from law abiding citizens exercising their rights. Which far out number the amount of homicides by guns.

    2: It creates a black market which will allow criminals to be armed against innocent people who will not be armed due to those laws. Even if the law just raises taxes it will affect some law abiding citizen putting guns out of their reach.
    This is ridiculous. A gun is not just a projection of its owner's goodness or badness like a wand in Harry Potter. It is an indifferent object capable of inflicting bodily harm regardless of the intent, morality, or ideology of anyone who yields it.

    1. All laws but a burden on citizens to abide by them. Ignorance is not an excuse for breaking the law, nor is pointing out that people will break the law by itself a reason to drop the law.

    2. Where criminals get their guns is not a simple answer. They can get them from a black market, or they can simply walk into a gun store with a person with a clean record and have them by one. This is called a "straw purchase." Licensed dealers can also sell them to criminals under the table.

    A complicated issue does not deserve a simple, pat answer. It deserves debate and compromise, and requires law abiding citizens to accept some necessary burdens to protect their rights if it can reasonably address the problem in a positive manner.

    How criminals get guns: frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

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    Re: Should Gun Violence be a Homeland Security Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Should Gun Violence be re-prioritized as a Homeland Security issue?
    Crime is a local issue not a federal issue. That said I would be all for sending gang bangers to Gitmo or Abu Ghraib prison to be waterboarded on a daily basis.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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