View Poll Results: You're the Congressman, and Your Vote on Syria

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  • Yea

    16 19.75%
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    65 80.25%
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Thread: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and why

  1. #61
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
    20 years? It was more like 15 but that's irrelevant.
    I said nearly...it is irrelevant. It was over a decade...rounded up 2 decades, being exact a decade and a half or 15 years. It was a long time.

    Wow. The left was absolutely dead set against going into Iraq, screaming like banshees the whole time that there were no WMDs to the extent that became the rallying cry for those opposed to the action in Iraq. But now you're using the very rationale you once decried and turning that on me to say I'm the one being irrational.
    Iraq was an actual invasion and occupation. Much higher stakes, much higher costs, should have a higher bar.

    I'm not using the rational...I'm against the attacks, I'm just not sure how conservatives are "rational" if they supported/still support the Iraq invasion yet are against the idea of military strikes in Syria. If ownership and use of WMD's are justification for an actual invasion of a country...how on earth is it rational in this case to state military strikes aren't justification?
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  2. #62
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
    ...and here's a little bit of irony to throw into the mix; Saddam's top military advisor saying their WMDs were moved into Syria:

    Israel Matzav: Video: Saddam's top military adviser says Iraqi WMD's were moved to Syria
    Sure...and other proponent individuals that left the country were claiming that we'd be treated as heroes and the occupation would be short and sweet as a thankful populace welcomed our overthrow of their dictator.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  3. #63
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Yay.

    1. It serves a pointed and clearly identified strategic objective namely the buttressing of US credibility and the retrenchment of our foreign policy posture.

    2. The objective is well defined by the degrading of Syrian military infrastructure in a series of limited strikes to punish the government for its use of chemical weapons.

    3. While I personally support a broader engagement and the potential of supporting palatable elements within the Free Syrian Army to counterbalance the Islamists in Syria and create a better possible end game I feel confident going to my constituents and telling them that this is not what is being discussed.

    4. To turn back now risks catastrophic damage to the position of the United States abroad. We have come nose to nose with Syria, Iran, and Russia all of our allies and our enemies are watching us to see what we will do. Assad crows that this is the beginning of a major American retreat and it is how it will be perceived. This has consequences into the next administration and the next one.

    5. The costs of action are in actuality rather low. Hysterics and talking points aside this is not an invasion, this is not Iraq.

  4. #64
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    It's beginning to look like what the president has in mind might be a little more than just a few bombs. What Obama is presenting us with is a confrontation with Syria, Iran, and Russia. Either we confront it as that, i.e., the reality, or we leave it alone. The other side of this is that an attack on Assad may actually force him to use CW in the near future to hang on to power. Then there's the chance that our attack will detonate some CW's there....
    Good afternoon, humbolt.

    BHO might want to take on Syria, Iran, and Russia? China has interests in the area, too, so why not be all-inclusive? : This is getting more absurd and unbelievable by the day! Where are the cooler heads that may not agree that this is in America's best interest?

  5. #65
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good afternoon, humbolt.

    BHO might want to take on Syria, Iran, and Russia? China has interests in the area, too, so why not be all-inclusive? : This is getting more absurd and unbelievable by the day! Where are the cooler heads that may not agree that this is in America's best interest?
    No one is talking about fighting Russia, Iran, or China. Where are you getting this from?

  6. #66
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    no. it's someone else's turn to do a global police mission. i would choose Saudi Arabia. it has proven to be one of the least effective regional hegemons on earth, and it's time for them to step up. this would be like expecting SA to stop the Mexican government from gassing its own people. that would be our job. this isn't, and we need to let the world know we aren't going to solve every crisis pro bono.

  7. #67
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Iraq was an actual invasion and occupation. Much higher stakes, much higher costs, should have a higher bar.
    Hmmm. One could easily argue the stakes and potential costs are are astronomically higher in this situation than they were with Iraq, invasion or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I'm not using the rational...I'm against the attacks, I'm just not sure how conservatives are "rational" if they supported/still support the Iraq invasion yet are against the idea of military strikes in Syria. If ownership and use of WMD's are justification for an actual invasion of a country...how on earth is it rational in this case to state military strikes aren't justification?
    As you noted, the stakes and potential costs are completely different, as is the context.

    We'd just experienced the worst terrorist attack in our history by Al Quaida two years prior. The use of Iraq as a refuge/base of operations by them was an issue, as was their relationship to Saddam. Oil was an issue, their proximity to it. And of course Saddam's WMDs were an issue too - our enemies getting their hands on WMDs was a huge concern given what they'd just done to us and what their rhetoric constantly threatened.

    There are no such issues in our attacking Syria now - save for the ostensible reason that Obama foolishly and ill-advisedly drew a red line in the sand.
    Who chimes "No Absolutes!" chimes absolutely.

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  8. #68
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    I hope you're correct. We are not the only players in the area though, and some have far more to lose than we do.
    Since BHO seems determined to assuage his battered ego...and that is what it looks like at this point, since he didn't act two years ago when he could have...our allies look like the only adults here. And how he intends to accomplish this without "no boots on the ground" will be interesting. Will he drone or bomb Russia, too?

  9. #69
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Actually....quit the opposite. I suspect that they aren't thinking at all....they are simply basing their feelings on which party in in charge.
    Well then your assertion is wrong, though your projection may be spot on.
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  10. #70
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Since BHO seems determined to assuage his battered ego...and that is what it looks like at this point, since he didn't act two years ago when he could have...our allies look like the only adults here. And how he intends to accomplish this without "no boots on the ground" will be interesting. Will he drone or bomb Russia, too?
    I'm emphatically not a fan of the President and I did not vote for him. That being said I think the way in which he's been so aggressively caricaturized is dangerous for precisely this post--it blinds people to reality. Seriously he's doing this for 'ego'? That is ludicrous. He doesn't even want to do it and that's half the problem. No, he's pursuing it because he put the credibility of the United States on the line and the pressure from within his administration to act has been overwhelming.

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