View Poll Results: You're the Congressman, and Your Vote on Syria

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  • Yea

    16 19.75%
  • Nay

    65 80.25%
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    0 0%
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Thread: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and why

  1. #131
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Can i pick to invade uganda instead?

  2. #132
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Is that the same evidence the UN, the UK, and everyone else has pretty much disavowed? Or maybe similar evidence the UN had in May which stated it WAS in fact the Obama supported rebels which launched chemical weapons? Was that the Sarin gas that rebels were found with in June? Has there been any offering of WHY Bashar Assad would order a chemical attack when he has been steadily defeating the rebels for the last year now?

    How 'certain' are you of that 'certainty'?
    As for the why there are a variety of possible reasons.

    Firstly your characterization of 'steadily defeating' the rebels is inaccurate. The Syrian government has won some much needed victories these past few months but the opposition remains entrenched across its territory and has scored local victories around Damascus, in Latakia province, and in the north-east. By no means was or is the war showing signs of coming to a close or an impending government victory. More fighters, weapons, and supplies flow across the border daily and the longer the conflict goes on the worse the situation is for Assad who has been reduced to using proxy levies in large part because of the risk of defection when organized Syrian formations come into contact with the rebels. Hence the reliance on artillery, aerial bombardment, and foreign shock troops.

    But why were the weapons used? If it came down directly from Assad I can think up quite a few reasons:

    1. After repeated small scale use without eliciting western retaliation or further sanction the possibility of increasing their utilization with a limited test to push Western resolve and possibly offer a quick way to end the conflict.
    2. In conjunction with the above point it is an excellent psychological weapon. A failure of western response would be devastating to rebel morale while holding the specter of further chemical attack over their heads.
    3. Reasons that are not clear to us but somehow make sense to Assad. At the end of the day he is a dictator from a dynastic family. Gaddafi didn't think he could be toppled until a mob grabbed him, Saddam didn't think he'd be bombed let alone invaded until it actually happened, Mubarak didn't think the military could turn on him until it did despite days of warning and offers of asylum, Musharraf actually thought he'd get a hero's welcome on his return to Pakistan, etc. Dictators have historically been prone to bouts of delusion and difficult to comprehend decision making. If that proves to be the case in Syria it wouldn't be the first or last time it has happened.

    The alternate plausible option? A regime commander, family member, or sufficiently high ranking Baath official authorized the use of chemical weapons without the consent of Assad. Though considering the signals intelligence that has been reported this seems to be an uncertain theory at the moment.

  3. #133
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    Holy ****, we agree on something.

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  4. #134
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    What evidence has been disavowed? It is the simplest of evidence. What delivery systems were used, lethality (and thus quantity) of the chemical agent used, where the attack occurred, and who was affected. To my knowledge this has not been disputed. Even if you knew nothing but this you'd be hard pressed to come to the conclusion that the rebels were responsible for the attack.

    This is a separate question from why the attack was launched. Though as previously stated it is entirely possible that a local commander or member of the inner circle exceeded his authority and used the weapons without permission. Never the less the evidence that regime forces were responsible is pretty clear cut.
    If your goal was to bring your 'allies' into the cause with arms against the regime, what better way than launch a few artillery shells (easily done) with a chemical weapon you have already been caught in possession of?

    With those bits of 'evidence' you listed...you still clinging to that 'virtual' certainty?

  5. #135
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    As for the why there are a variety of possible reasons.

    Firstly your characterization of 'steadily defeating' the rebels is inaccurate. The Syrian government has won some much needed victories these past few months but the opposition remains entrenched across its territory and has scored local victories around Damascus, in Latakia province, and in the north-east. By no means was or is the war showing signs of coming to a close or an impending government victory. More fighters, weapons, and supplies flow across the border daily and the longer the conflict goes on the worse the situation is for Assad who has been reduced to using proxy levies in large part because of the risk of defection when organized Syrian formations come into contact with the rebels. Hence the reliance on artillery, aerial bombardment, and foreign shock troops.

    But why were the weapons used? If it came down directly from Assad I can think up quite a few reasons:

    1. After repeated small scale use without eliciting western retaliation or further sanction the possibility of increasing their utilization with a limited test to push Western resolve and possibly offer a quick way to end the conflict.
    2. In conjunction with the above point it is an excellent psychological weapon. A failure of western response would be devastating to rebel morale while holding the specter of further chemical attack over their heads.
    3. Reasons that are not clear to us but somehow make sense to Assad. At the end of the day he is a dictator from a dynastic family. Gaddafi didn't think he could be toppled until a mob grabbed him, Saddam didn't think he'd be bombed let alone invaded until it actually happened, Mubarak didn't think the military could turn on him until it did despite days of warning and offers of asylum, Musharraf actually thought he'd get a hero's welcome on his return to Pakistan, etc. Dictators have historically been prone to bouts of delusion and difficult to comprehend decision making. If that proves to be the case in Syria it wouldn't be the first or last time it has happened.

    The alternate plausible option? A regime commander, family member, or sufficiently high ranking Baath official authorized the use of chemical weapons without the consent of Assad. Though considering the signals intelligence that has been reported this seems to be an uncertain theory at the moment.
    Just as your previous post showed...all you can offer is speculation about what MAY have happened. Now...who was caught in march of this year (by the UN) using chemical weapons against civilians?

  6. #136
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    The only inteligent period in USA history was 1914 - 1917. (in context of foreign wars)

    They gassed each other. We did nothing.
    They killed each other. We did nothing.

    And before that we did nothing.

    Time for sanity to return to USA.
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  7. #137
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    My vote:

    Nay.

  8. #138
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    I vote not no, but hell no. We have yet to see any conclusive evidence that it was the Syrian government that used chemical weapons.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  9. #139
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    I am a reluctant yea, although I do love Rand Pauls "Who wants to be the first to die for a mistake?" Classic. I think Obama botched this whole thing, but you got to back him at this point and just hope he doesn't make things even worse.
    Why the hell should I back a person who I know, as you say, "botched this whole thing?"
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  10. #140
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by avatar View Post
    I do not see a compelling reason for us to take "limited military action" for this event. One goes to war to kill, break things and win. You do not shoot at someone and then say ok, you've learned your lesson. War should be saved for when war is really necessary.
    I agree. The whole notion of "limited military action" is oxymoronic. It's a political term for politicians to engorge their chests and strut around impressing their peers.

    War is a last result, not some political tool. Only the little child and the complete fool thinks they can 'play war.'
    Who chimes "No Absolutes!" chimes absolutely.

    zoom zoom

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