View Poll Results: You're the Congressman, and Your Vote on Syria

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  • Yea

    16 19.75%
  • Nay

    65 80.25%
  • Not Present

    0 0%
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Thread: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and why

  1. #121
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    I'm for supporting the choice that the President makes. He has the actual intelligence (not some half cooked internet discussion board "intel") and grave decision to make. I believe every President has always weighed heavily the consequences of action vs. inaction and acts accordingly. People on the internet think they know better, but I would wager my house that they don't.
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  2. #122
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    It is virtually a certainty that regime troops were responsible for the chemical bombardment. They used a mixture of rockets and artillery with unitary or binary shells and exclusively targeted a rebel defended bastion. The FSA (and Islamists) not only lack access to this type of weaponry or its associated munitions they lack the technical experience to handle it and use it with this level of sophistication. One can either believe they have secretly surmounted these technical barriers, acquired this large armament and munitions stockpiles, secreted it across regime controlled territory, and deployed it in the extreme hope that they would never be discovered despite intense intelligence surveillance. Or you can believe either Assad or a local commander decided to fire weapons known to be in their possetion.

    The simpler answer makes much more sense to me.

    As for Russia yes it does and I've covered that numerous times. Rejecting the military option is something I've had to harp on because of some peoples astonishing willingness to consider it as a plausible possibility. Which it is not.
    Where did you get the info that the rebels would not have people who had experience with artillery? And could not they got the equipment from a base that was overrun earlier? Also where did you get the info that it was that sophisticated? Some of these are Al_Qaeda who are known for suicide missions. There could have been a limited shelling of the camps and Al_Qaeda would have sneaked in earlier people to release the gas in person.
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  3. #123
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Where did you get the info that the rebels would not have people who had experience with artillery? And could not they got the equipment from a base that was overrun earlier? Also where did you get the info that it was that sophisticated? Some of these are Al_Qaeda who are known for suicide missions. There could have been a limited shelling of the camps and Al_Qaeda would have sneaked in earlier people to release the gas in person.
    They do not have experience handling chemical weapons, and they did not have access to rockets or the chemical warheads that were used. The information comes from consistent reports from virtually every media and intelligence source over the past two years. The FSA has never deployed these weapons and has never possessed heavy fixed artillery. Let alone warheads capable of being fitted onto rockets, moreover according to the Guardian and intelligence reports the rockets were littered with neurotoxic material and identified by numerous sources as the delivery system. Again your scenario requires much more complexity and conspiracy. Could al-Qaeda or the FSA or some group somehow have acquired these weapons, smuggled them, and deployed them in a nefarious false flag attack? I mean anything is possible. It just isn't probable. The evidence is overwhelmingly slanted towards this being a regime unit that launched the strike. I'll restate the logical evidence:

    1. The delivery method was by artillery and rocket bombardment not local detonation.
    2. It used unitary and/or binary chemical shells and warheads (as they were fixed to rockets).
    3. No Syrian opposition group has ever shown that it possesses this equipment or the stockpiles of chemical weapons required for a sophisticated attack of this kind. Nor has any been known or thought to possess it.
    4. The attack occurred in the midst of a pre-dawn government offensive into the suburbs.
    5. The bombardment exclusively targeted opposition held areas.

    So you can either believe this is a massive and sophisticated false flag attack or that somehow a regime commander released some of their stockpile for bombardment. It may have even been a rogue commander or an overzealous member of Assad's family. Regardless of why it happened it seems highly implausible that it was anything other than a regime bombardment.

    Edit: Moreover the Syrian government has not even attempted to release evidence to the contrary. France, the UK, Turkey, and the US have released intelligence findings and evidence to back up their claims while foreign media sources in Syria have confirmed local reports giving us a more accurate assessment of what occurred. Syrian efforts to delay access to the site and allow evidence to dissipate and degrade is also another piece of logical evidence to throw onto the table.
    Last edited by Sherman123; 09-03-13 at 10:08 PM.

  4. #124
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    It is virtually a certainty that regime troops were responsible for the chemical bombardment. They used a mixture of rockets and artillery with unitary or binary shells and exclusively targeted a rebel defended bastion. The FSA (and Islamists) not only lack access to this type of weaponry or its associated munitions they lack the technical experience to handle it and use it with this level of sophistication. One can either believe they have secretly surmounted these technical barriers, acquired this large armament and munitions stockpiles, secreted it across regime controlled territory, and deployed it in the extreme hope that they would never be discovered despite intense intelligence surveillance. Or you can believe either Assad or a local commander decided to fire weapons known to be in their possetion.

    The simpler answer makes much more sense to me.

    As for Russia yes it does and I've covered that numerous times. Rejecting the military option is something I've had to harp on because of some peoples astonishing willingness to consider it as a plausible possibility. Which it is not.
    A virtual certainty is it? Based on what evidence? Was it just as certain back in March? Is it a 'virtual certainty' because you WANT it to be a virtual certainty (and even then, only because Obama wants it to be and therefore, you must make it be so)?

    You get of course that 'virtual' prior to 'certainty' states that it is therefore NOT certain...right?

  5. #125
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    A virtual certainty is it? Based on what evidence? Was it just as certain back in March? Is it a 'virtual certainty' because you WANT it to be a virtual certainty (and even then, only because Obama wants it to be and therefore, you must make it be so)?

    You get of course that 'virtual' prior to 'certainty' states that it is therefore NOT certain...right?
    Semantic quibbling aside I summarized the evidence pretty clearly.

  6. #126
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Semantic quibbling aside I summarized the evidence pretty clearly.
    Is that the same evidence the UN, the UK, and everyone else has pretty much disavowed? Or maybe similar evidence the UN had in May which stated it WAS in fact the Obama supported rebels which launched chemical weapons? Was that the Sarin gas that rebels were found with in June? Has there been any offering of WHY Bashar Assad would order a chemical attack when he has been steadily defeating the rebels for the last year now?

    How 'certain' are you of that 'certainty'?

  7. #127
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yes! We need to show a united front to our enemies and would be enemies.
    Holy ****, we agree on something.

    I think I can see a pig in the sky...
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  8. #128
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Yea, of course.
    Be skeptical of anyone who wears a political label - party or ideology - with pride. Most of our problems are because people love to "debate" (it isn't debate, but they pretend it is), but are not interested in developing solutions. Solutions require empathy, thought, and compromise, and most folks aren't interested.

  9. #129
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Is that the same evidence the UN, the UK, and everyone else has pretty much disavowed? Or maybe similar evidence the UN had in May which stated it WAS in fact the Obama supported rebels which launched chemical weapons? Was that the Sarin gas that rebels were found with in June? Has there been any offering of WHY Bashar Assad would order a chemical attack when he has been steadily defeating the rebels for the last year now?

    How 'certain' are you of that 'certainty'?
    What evidence has been disavowed? It is the simplest of evidence. What delivery systems were used, lethality (and thus quantity) of the chemical agent used, where the attack occurred, and who was affected. To my knowledge this has not been disputed. Even if you knew nothing but this you'd be hard pressed to come to the conclusion that the rebels were responsible for the attack.

    This is a separate question from why the attack was launched. Though as previously stated it is entirely possible that a local commander or member of the inner circle exceeded his authority and used the weapons without permission. Never the less the evidence that regime forces were responsible is pretty clear cut.

  10. #130
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    Re: You're The Congressman... You Make the Call on Syria (Yea... or Nay.. or...) and

    I am a reluctant yea, although I do love Rand Pauls "Who wants to be the first to die for a mistake?" Classic. I think Obama botched this whole thing, but you got to back him at this point and just hope he doesn't make things even worse.

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