View Poll Results: Who should has the job of World Police?

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  • America is the world's remaining superpower. It's our job.

    8 18.18%
  • Let Russia become the new world police

    1 2.27%
  • China as the most people so it should be their job

    1 2.27%
  • Regional associations deal with regional matters; the Arab League, NAFTA, NATO.

    8 18.18%
  • The UN with its own standing military, of which America also subjected to.

    8 18.18%
  • Other

    18 40.91%
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Thread: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

  1. #21
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    Operating from the position that a vacuum would e created and a true hates a vacuum. However, I included an "other" oion just in case there were preferences I didn't think of.
    Other implies a nation you did not list. NO ONE indicates a clear statement that no nation has the right to compel other nations to comply with whatever ideology the policeman feels like enforcing.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  2. #22
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The real reason that no action was taken in the congo would be a good start.
    The real reason? No strategic value.

  3. #23
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    if any country has to be a world power it should act like lady justice
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

  4. #24
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    You pose a false dilemma because the issue is not which battles we pick, it's why we get involved at all. Typically our government picks based on "vital interests" which in the case of the Middle East has always been Oil and Israel, in that order. If the Congo had something we wanted, we'd be in there too. We have no "moral high ground" in such choices, it's always what provides the most return on our investment (in this case American lives and military expenditures). This has always troubled me because we inevitably make lasting enemies both overt and hidden by our obviously self-centered acts of violence.



    That is a particularly ethnocentric viewpoint, and as I have explained to another member, the same attitude displayed by "superpowers" throughout all eras of history. We do not have a corner on the "proper form of government" market. Each society should be allowed to choose their own without outside interference.

    If our system is so good, and naturally the most advanced, then all we need do is set a good example and let people choose to follow it. Why do you think just because we currently have the strongest military force this authorizes us to compel other societies to comply with out ideals? How would you feel if we were NOT the strongest and China and/or Russia were and THEY tried to compel US to adhere to their moral ideals or forms of government? It is hubris to think we have such a duty.
    1. It isn't a false dilemma because I was responding to a particular poster who made a statement for which my reply was entirely applicable.

    2. I find non-interventionism to be fool hardy and morally distasteful.

    3. If we only go to places that have "something we want" why did we go to Bosnia? Kosovo? Haiti? Somalia? Hell why Syria? Clearly we are not a kleptocratic leviathan or we'd surely select some better targets.

    4. I disagree. I think we do have a corner on the proper form of government. I find that notion that others do not desire democracy to be more racist than claiming that Chinese or Iranian citizens are desirous of a more republican form of government.

    5. False. Good ideas and people power do not bring down autocracies. All it would have taken to prevent the collapse of the Mubarak regime would have been a government as ruthless as the one in Tehran or Damascus. The ability to deploy violence and the willingness to do so can perpetuate these dictatorships ad nausum. The collapse of the Soviet Union was in large part brought about because of the pressures exerted by the United States and her allies across the globe, but even then the possibility that violence would have saved the regime was absolutely present. It is why a strong democratic power, the United States, is essential in bringing about a better world.

    6. I find the Chinese and Russian system of government to be repugnant and their governments to be moreso. I am not a relativist, I do not care about the equivalence of what a Chinese authoritarian thinks vs. what I think. I'm in this to win.

  5. #25
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TiredOfLife View Post
    The real reason? No strategic value.
    What is the strategic value of a "limitted military action" in Syria?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #26
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    What is the strategic value of a "limitted military action" in Syria?
    Proves Obama has cajones. That's of the utmost importance.

  7. #27
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    What is the strategic value of a "limitted military action" in Syria?
    Keeping Syria in a box so that its civil war doesn't cross the borders. We are also sending a message on chemical weapons, they are a no no. Slaughter is okay of course, as long as the oil still flows.

  8. #28
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    All good reasons to decline the job, and not let anyone else do it either.
    yep. if we're going to nation build, we need to do it domestically. the fact that we keep doing this over and over again with the same results is frustrating.

  9. #29
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Our foreign and military posture is not the source of our financial and fiscal woes.
    It's an enormous portion of it. The US military and Intel budgets are nearly a trillion annually. Iraq alone cost over a trillion. Adding a trillion a year plus ongoing interest to the debt certainly isn't fixing our debt problem. Ignoring the exorbitant cost of our oversized military isn't making an honest assessment of the source of our fiscal woes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    if we're to be global cop, there needs to be a global tax to pay for it.
    Further, if the law of the world is set by the US President and the US Congress, then everyone on Earth should have a vote in US elections. Otherwise, we're just a massive global oligarchy posing as a democracy.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

  10. #30
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The real reason that no action was taken in the congo would be a good start.
    Because the American people were uninterested, because the Government had its attentions focused elsewhere, we had been 'burned' in Somalia only a scant few years before, the idea of moral interventionism had not fully taken root yet (it was only a few years after Rwanda), the unwillingness to suborn troops to a UN mission or conversely to lead one ourselves, the absorption of US focus on Iraq (Desert Fox), and afterwards 9/11 and the War on Terror. Also when it comes to Africa we've largely left it in the hands of our European allies (Operation Turqoise, Mali, Chad, Ivory Coast, Sierra Leone, Senegal, CAR, etc). You could probably list a thousand other variables.

    As I said before I'd gladly like to do more in the Congo, I think the Congo is actually where the most good for Africa can be accomplished (and by extension the planet). However that is not going to happen. But it is not an argument for ignoring the opportunity to do good and flex US influence in Syria.

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