View Poll Results: Who should has the job of World Police?

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  • America is the world's remaining superpower. It's our job.

    8 18.18%
  • Let Russia become the new world police

    1 2.27%
  • China as the most people so it should be their job

    1 2.27%
  • Regional associations deal with regional matters; the Arab League, NAFTA, NATO.

    8 18.18%
  • The UN with its own standing military, of which America also subjected to.

    8 18.18%
  • Other

    18 40.91%
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Thread: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

  1. #141
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    I really don't appreciate people appending their slants on MY statements and then declaring these slants are now MY position. Nor do I accept the need to follow their fallacies down paths they wish me to trod. My position has been made perfectly clear; if you are confused by it simply follow the prior posts and read them for comprehension.
    You declared and I do quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse
    We can make our own alliances and deal with our own interests without outside interference.
    and now appear to have a problem with the fact that this is precisely what we are already doing. Our interests are mutually incompatible with other nations' interests, bringing us naturally into conflict.

    If you want to modify or explain your position, let me know. I'd be more than happy to discuss it. Simply referencing that you've mentioned it to others without even links, however, is a poor tactic, and makes you appear dodgy.

    The "Strait of Hormuz" is shared like the Straits of Malacca. That means no single nation bordering it has absolute control over it, and therefore exclusive claim to it
    so? What in the world makes you think that China or Iran care about whether or not other nations have a claim to critical chokepoints upon which their security and economic posture depend? Shutting the Strait of Hormuz is an Iranian option, and a very serious one - it's one they've threatened before, and the only reason they haven't done it commensurate with their increases in regional influence is because of the presence of the 5th Fleet in Bahrain. Similarly, the Chinese maintain a rife of territorial disputes in this area with Vietnam, Malaysia, the Philippines, Japan, and Indonesia; and doesn't use it's (relatively) overpowering navy to seal the deal because of the 7th Fleet and forward-deployed U.S. forces in Okinawa (and starting now, Australia).

    What, did you think that in the absence of the U.S. these nations were going to suddenly become followers of Kant and the Perpetual Peace, submitting their national interests to UNCLOS arbitration? Sorry. Asia, Africa, and the Middle East don't live in Kant's world (yet), but in Hobbes'.

    Syria is involved in a civil war, that is none of our business. Like I've told everyone else, if YOU feel the need to fight for one side or the other feel free to gear up and GO there. You have my blessing. Sending American troops, or using American force in "air and missile strikes?" Nope, not without a clear declaration of war by Congress.
    While Syria's civil war is hardly "none of our business", I'm not aware of anyone calling for us to try to end it one way or the other - for example, the way we did in Libya. Should we attempt to do so, we should make sure that we do so in such a way as to get the greatest relative gain for minimal expenditure of resources (as we did there). Plenty of my fellow conservatives felt the need to critique the President because he was The Other Guy over Libya, but with the exception of some embarrassing rhetoric (lead from behind ... really...), it was actually quite well done.

    In the intermediate period in Syria, however, America should nonetheless pursue her interests by both striking key portions of the regimes infrastructure that it is in our interest to destroy or secure (such as her IADs functions and CW stores) while at the same time providing coverage to fleeing groups of civilians. So long as it is contained, Syria's civil war can serve our interests by drawing extremists out of Iraq, and serving to split the efforts of groups who would otherwise be targeting the Suez Canal and Israel, as well as draining the resources of the nation who would otherwise be extending and deepening her influence in Bahrain, and Iraq. But you have to secure the WMD before it get's lost, and you have an interest in being the one providing protection to civilian populaces.

  2. #142
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill;1062268283....and now appear to have a problem with the fact that [I
    this is precisely what we are already doing[/I]. Our interests are mutually incompatible with other nations' interests, bringing us naturally into conflict.

    If you want to modify or explain your position, let me know. I'd be more than happy to discuss it. Simply referencing that you've mentioned it to others without even links, however, is a poor tactic, and makes you appear dodgy.
    (Sigh)...and of course you only go back as far as you think will help your current claim, and ignore EVERYTHING ELSE I've stated showing EXACTLY what I meant by that last comment. Then you decide to append what YOU think I must be talking about and off you go on your own little path thinking I am going to follow you.

    Sorry, I don't feel compelled to repeat myself over and over every time someone tries this tactic. I am not an isolationist, I simply prefer we limit military action to declared wars, defense of our treaty allies (again requiring a Congressional declaration of war); or in immediate response to a direct attack (self-defense) followed by a declaration of war. Gee, even FDR still went to Congress to ask for a Declaration of War on December 8, 1941 after the attack on Pearl Harbor:

    Yesterday, December 7, 1941 -- a date which will live in infamy -- the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan...As Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy I have directed that all measures be taken for our defense...I ask that the Congress declare that since the unprovoked and dastardly attack by Japan on Sunday, December 7, 1941, a state of war has existed between the United States and the Japanese Empire.
    Absent that, we stick to Diplomacy. I believe I've also outlined what I meant by that in this thread. (See Post #52, page 6).

    Syria meets none of those conditions.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 09-03-13 at 03:50 AM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  3. #143
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    (Sigh)...and of course you only go back as far as you think will help your current claim, and ignore EVERYTHING ELSE I've stated showing EXACTLY what I meant by that last comment. Then you decide to append what YOU think I must be talking about and off you go on your own little path thinking I am going to follow you.

    Sorry, I don't feel compelled to repeat myself over and over every time someone tries this tactic. I am not an isolationist, I simply prefer we limit military action to declared wars, defense of our treaty allies (again requiring a Congressional declaration of war); or in immediate response to a direct attack (self-defense) followed by a declaration of war. Gee, even FDR still went to Congress to ask for a Declaration of War on December 8, 1941 after the attack on Pearl Harbor:

    Absent that, we stick to Diplomacy. I believe I've also outlined what I meant by that in this thread. (See Post #52, page 6).
    So Iran closing the Strait of Hormuz would not be something you would intervene in? Meaning that we are not pursuing our interests.

    You're not interested in repeating yourself? I'm not interested in going back and reading through everything you've ever written in the hopes of coming across the nugget you reference but do not describe (until now). If you are going to claim that others have a poor understanding of your position, then you need to be able to adequately express that position.

    The position you describe is fine. It would even be preferable if it was still the 19th century and Britain was still global naval hegemon. Sadly, we are no longer able to free-ride on the expenditures of others; and so to benefit from our current global supply chain we must instead bear the costs of underpinning it ourselves.

    It would also be preferable if there were no chemical weapons dangerously loose in Syria. Again, sadly, such is the case. The idea that we would fail to launch preemptive strikes against threats flowing to us from Islamist jihadi networks died on 9/11.

    Syria meets none of those conditions.
    Actually Syria has shot at both Turkey (a member of NATO) and Israel (a treaty ally) now, as well as served as a launchpad for attacks that cost thousands of American lives in Iraq. If Syria wants to claim a monopoly of force in her borders, then she has to accept responsibility for the force projecting from within her borders - meaning that she is already at war with us.

  4. #144
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Artevelde View Post
    Thousands more of Serbs were killed. And Sebs and Gypsies were driven away by the KLA.
    More Serbs killed than Albanians?

    That source of mine cites 6 thousand Albanians massively murdered and put to mass graves in a systematic fashion as seen during Hitler. If you have sources that we did more than 6 thousand of Serbs so as to backup your claims you are very welcomed to provide them.

    This certainly requires a source. Have any?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  5. #145
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    All the Africans I've met be they black, white or of Asian descent all are on a mission to make Americans think Africa is just as modern as the west and the bush people are only a small subculture similar to our Amish. Of course, I think they are a bit behind in terms of modernization but they don't want us to think that. Its a big pride issue for them for the rest of the world and especially Americans to know they have cell phones, the Internet, cable/satellite TV, cars, highways, shopping malls and air-conditioning. They do not worship tend to worship the prehistoric times from my interactions but embrace modernity and want us to know it.
    Well there is some movement to make ME more civilized by pushing them the f away from religion. Any programs do you know aimed to civilize Africa?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  6. #146
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    More Serbs killed than Albanians?

    That source of mine cites 6 thousand Albanians massively murdered and put to mass graves in a systematic fashion as seen during Hitler. If you have sources that we did more than 6 thousand of Serbs so as to backup your claims you are very welcomed to provide them.

    This certainly requires a source. Have any?
    I understand you have a poor command of the English language.

    Claiming that Albanians were killed by Serbs in a systematic and genocidal manner is an obvious lie. Then there should have been hundreds of thousands of Albanian dead, quod non.

  7. #147
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Artevelde View Post
    I understand you have a poor command of the English language.

    Claiming that Albanians were killed by Serbs in a systematic and genocidal manner is an obvious lie. Then there should have been hundreds of thousands of Albanian dead, quod non.
    There would be if the ethnic cleansing lasted for years as it did in Bosnia. Luckily it was only 77 days. So 6000 children, women, and elderly ethnically cleansed systematically for 77 days during bombing as well as prior to that while negotiations were taking place give or take 2-3 months and you have an achievement.

    But you see, I would not even take this route in conversation with you if you did not told me you were a Belg from Brussels. But knowing that, and continuing with blabber even when presented with sources, and inability to backup your statements with sources (i.e., more Serbs killed than Albanians?), just shows me that you may have slipped to the other side of RT media.

    So I guess I feel a bit pity about you for being influenced by their lies. Hence this form of communication in trying to persuade you that (as the source can point out) civilians got ethnically cleansed in deed. I find you very atypical for a Belg also.

    Alternatively, you could be trolling perhaps?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  8. #148
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    There would be if the ethnic cleansing lasted for years as it did in Bosnia. Luckily it was only 77 days. So 6000 children, women, and elderly ethnically cleansed systematically for 77 days during bombing as well as prior to that while negotiations were taking place give or take 2-3 months and you have an achievement.

    But you see, I would not even take this route in conversation with you if you did not told me you were a Belg from Brussels. But knowing that, and continuing with blabber even when presented with sources, and inability to backup your statements with sources (i.e., more Serbs killed than Albanians?), just shows me that you may have slipped to the other side of RT media.

    So I guess I feel a bit pity about you for being influenced by their lies. Hence this form of communication in trying to persuade you that (as the source can point out) civilians got ethnically cleansed in deed. I find you very atypical for a Belg also.

    Alternatively, you could be trolling perhaps?
    I never denied that there were campaigns waged against the Albanians by the Serbs. But there never was a genocide or an attempted genocide. And the campaign of the Serbs against the Albanians was followed by a similar campaign by the Albanians against the Serbs and other minority groups in Kosovo.

    You are simply every bit as much of an extremist as the Serb extremists.

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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    There would likely be much less major conflict and acts of terrorism if no single country or group of countries were to assume or even agree to police the world. Each nation should be allowed to retain their sovereignty as long as they keep their internal differences within their own borders.

  10. #150
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    Re: Superpower: its a tough job but somebody's got to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Artevelde View Post
    I never denied that there were campaigns waged against the Albanians by the Serbs. But there never was a genocide or an attempted genocide.
    Define "genocide."
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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